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I know the difference between those two words but I just don't believe you. I think you are being dishonest and not forthcoming with your feelings. It's obvious you hate illegals. You see them as criminals. Yes, technically they are criminals but I think any reasonable person can distinguish between an illegal immigrant coming here to earn enough money to support his family versus a murderer or someone with malintent.
Technically they are criminals? No, they are criminals, period. Any illegal alien who is working, or has worked, in the United States, has committed a crime. These crimes include ID theft, document fraud, Social Security fraud, employment "I-9 Form" fraud, income tax evasion, and conspiracy to violate immigration laws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan.
Xenophobia is specifically a fear of foreigners. And one reason why people like you resent illegals is because of the paranoid fear that an overwhelming majority of them will somehow change our American way of life. It goes beyond just borders.
Which country wouldn't feel this way about their country and their culture? What if millions of Asian illegal aliens started pouring into Mexico each year for several years in a row? Do you think the Mexican people would start complaining about how this influx of foreigners from a different culture was changing the Mexican way of life? You better believe they would.
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan.
If these people were British, there would be much less resentment because they would have an easier time assimilating.
These British might have an easier time assimilating here, but it wouldn't change the fact that these British are illegal aliens and should be deported for being illegally in this country.
No argument with this statement here. The same can be said for the governements of ALL the countries that are exporting their poorest and most uneducated citizens to this country.
What I do have a problem with is how, in these forums, the people who support illegal immigration are never complained about. I'm talking about the owners of the businesses that hire these people. Aren't they committing crimes as well? Shouldn't they be shown the same disdain that the illegal immigrants are being shown?
The next time you hire a cheap contractor, a cheap Phillipino nurse, buy cheap fruit, hire a cheap landscaper, hire a cheap babysitter or maid ask yourself, "Am I supporting illegal immigrants?"
As far as the comments about race or culture not being a factor, I call BS on that since so many of the posts that complain about illegal immigration are always accompanied by complaints about run down neighborhoods or neighborhoods where all the signs are in Spanish or about people who don't speak English. My grandmother was a LEGAL (as are all of us in my family) immigrant and she never learned the language enough to even hold a conversation (though she managed to communicate enough to get people to understand her) but she paid her taxes and worked her butt off cleaning houses and raising spoiled rich mothers' children pretty much her whole life. None of them ever minded her speaking English and none of them ever asked her about her resident status in this country.
I'm educated enough to realize that this is just the current wave of intolerance that comes with a wave of immigration. It happened to the Europeans, the Chinese (who were also smuggled here illegaly), the Japanese, etc. They've all had the same complaints about run down neighborhoods, crime, being a burden on the economy, taking jobs from citizens and not speaking English filed on them by racists as well.
Except for the fact that in none of those instances were it 12-20-40 MILLION people with it being 1/6 of an entire Country alone.
If Mexico has gotten roped into being the face of illegal immigration it is because of Mexico's loud opinions on how the US should treat illegals. It is because of all the Mexican consulars built for the sole purpose of making life easier for their citizens in the US illegally.
You are correct that Mexico has a lot of wealth - too bad that doesn't translate into a thriving middle class. But because of this class disparity or perhaps in order to keep it - Mexico has decided the best way to deal with their poor and uneducated is to export them to the US. I'm afraid that the wealthy in Mexico may just have to deal with their own class and social disparities from now on instead of leaving it to the wicked and racist US.
Mexico has been roped as you stated because of Americans saying it is a Mexican problem. This isn't opinion, this is a fact. As far as the consulate, it isn't a key factor in the problem, but it is the Mexicans right to help the Mexican citizens. See once again, have you ever been to Mexico? Have you seen the middle class? There is a flourishing one here and I am part of it. I am a business owner and am considered middle class. I would think that about Americans be aware that the Mexican economy, maybe poor to your standards, is alive and doing very well. Mexico has a much smaller population than the U.S. and there is a lot of work here. I think it is pretty embarrassing that someone thinks that they are exported. Everyone has a choice in life and they make the choice to go to the states. Nobody sends them.
I remember a saying about how to make sure your own house was clean before you go into someone elses to criticize. As far as I am concerned, us Americans need to worry about our own internal problems, quit saying we are too good to do a job and take what is given to us. If we had taken care of business back many years ago then this problem might not have grown to the magnitude of today. It is out of control, but I will tell you this, as long as American has lazy Americans that won't go out and find themselves a job instead of waiting for the welfare check to come in the mail and having uncle sam support their grocery store visits, there will be work for the rest of the world. And who better to do it then people who want to work.
No one at all objects to humane deportations -- I think everyone is fine with the air conditioned white INS buses and decent food for people being deported. No one is suggesting the illegals be sent back the way they came even, no one is trying to force them to walk back across a hot desert, or even swim back. No one is for stuffing them into trunks of cars or packing them into unventilated semi-trailers or box cars to be sent back. They are returned in ways that are far better than they ways they came. They might arrive here dehydrated and starving but they are never sent back that way.
Massive out-of-control illegal immigration is not benefitting any country in the long run.
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan.
Because I don't speak with disdain about illegal immigrants that you read with most illegal threads. I know many in personal life who feel the same way I do yet on these forums people speak with such vitriolic hatred toward illegals. I don't even understand your anger. You only discussed one side. You claim they only take advantage of our system but you failed to discuss the fact that Americans exploit them for cheap labor. They also don't treat them with the same level of respect that they do with legal citizens. They suffer from racism on a daily basis. And their aspiration is to provide a better life for their families. I'm sorry but there is no rationale to have hatred for these people unless your motivation is partly inspired by racism or xenophobia. You obviously chose to focus on one side of these issues and ignore the other side. Again, I know many people who oppose immigration but they don't speak with the same tone and anger that you and others on this forum.
I think something that is rarely said in these threads is that many so-called "anti-illegals" are not haters; rather, we are in fear for our way of life, our well-being, and the health and prosperity of our country. Please do not confuse fear with hatred.
Many of us have a "them or us" attitude. Why? Because common sense dictates that the U.S. cannot absorb the weight of every desperate and impoverished person in the world who wants to come here. Most of us feel compassion for the plight of the illegal aliens in the U.S.; however, our compassion is stretched to its limit, and we get very angry as we see our quality of life declining, our tax dollars stretched beyond their limits, and a need so huge that it's frightening.
Desperate people from many parts of the world enter the U.S. illegally every day. Or, they come here legally on a visa, and then over overstay their visa. Either way, they shouldn't be here without our permission. Most of these people are from Mexico and Central America.
The very real (and yes, very sad) fact is that we cannot continue to allow this influx of illegal immigration without seriously jeopardizing American citizens' quality of life and propserity. Since the bulk of the illegal aliens are from Mexico, I would add that the plight of the poorest citizens of Mexico is the Mexican government's responsibility, not the U.S.
Your claim that most anti-illegal immigration advocates are xenophobes, racists and nativists is just plain nonsense. It's a tactic used by so many pro-iillegal immigration advocates to discredit us. Of course, yes, we do have the KKK and other fringe groups like them, but they are the exception, not the rule.
I think something that is rarely said in these threads is that many so-called "anti-illegals" are not haters; rather, we are in fear for our way of life, our well-being, and the health and prosperity of our country. Please do not confuse fear with hatred.
Many of us have a "them or us" attitude. Why? Because common sense dictates that the U.S. cannot absorb the weight of every desperate and impoverished person in the world who wants to come here. Most of us feel compassion for the plight of the illegal aliens in the U.S.; however, our compassion is stretched to its limit, and we get very angry as we see our quality of life declining, our tax dollars stretched beyond their limits, and a need so huge that it's frightening.
Desperate people from many parts of the world enter the U.S. illegally every day. Or, they come here legally on a visa, and then over overstay their visa. Either way, they shouldn't be here without our permission. Most of these people are from Mexico and Central America.
The very real (and yes, very sad) fact is that we cannot continue to allow this influx of illegal immigration without seriously jeopardizing American citizens' quality of life and propserity. Since the bulk of the illegal aliens are from Mexico, I would add that the plight of the poorest citizens of Mexico is the Mexican government's responsibility, not the U.S.
Your claim that most anti-illegal immigration advocates are xenophobes, racists and nativists is just plain nonsense. It's a tactic used by so many pro-iillegal immigration advocates to discredit us. Of course, yes, we do have the KKK and other fringe groups like them, but they are the exception, not the rule.
Excellent post!
Sadly, it will fall on deaf ears, because the agenda of illegal alien sympathizers is not to try to understand our feelings; rather, it is to discredit the opposition at all costs.
It’s difficult to support something inherently wrong; and since they can’t possibly justify illegal immigration, their only recourse is to attack the character of the opposition. They take the moral high ground in an attempt to guilt us into acquiescing; and when their strategy fails, they become even more self-righteous and insulting.
As you stated, the implication that anti-illegal = racist/xenophobe/nativist/hater, is utter nonsense. We are a sovereign nation, and have every right to dictate our immigration laws. We are also very charitable. However, our generosity has only served to embolden illegal aliens, and to feed their delusional sense of entitlement. Our disdain for foreigners who disrespect our laws is more than justified. Supporters of illegal immigration will simply have to reach into their bag of tricks and pull out something else.
Dont hate them. just tell them to leave. If they dont they are showing disrespect to you and our laws, THEN HATE THEM FOR THAT,THEY BROUGHT IT ON THEMSELVES.
Mexico has been roped as you stated because of Americans saying it is a Mexican problem. This isn't opinion, this is a fact. As far as the consulate, it isn't a key factor in the problem, but it is the Mexicans right to help the Mexican citizens. See once again, have you ever been to Mexico? Have you seen the middle class? There is a flourishing one here and I am part of it. I am a business owner and am considered middle class. I would think that about Americans be aware that the Mexican economy, maybe poor to your standards, is alive and doing very well. Mexico has a much smaller population than the U.S. and there is a lot of work here. I think it is pretty embarrassing that someone thinks that they are exported. Everyone has a choice in life and they make the choice to go to the states. Nobody sends them.
I remember a saying about how to make sure your own house was clean before you go into someone elses to criticize. As far as I am concerned, us Americans need to worry about our own internal problems, quit saying we are too good to do a job and take what is given to us. If we had taken care of business back many years ago then this problem might not have grown to the magnitude of today. It is out of control, but I will tell you this, as long as American has lazy Americans that won't go out and find themselves a job instead of waiting for the welfare check to come in the mail and having uncle sam support their grocery store visits, there will be work for the rest of the world. And who better to do it then people who want to work.
No argument with this statement here. The same can be said for the governements of ALL the countries that are exporting their poorest and most uneducated citizens to this country.
What I do have a problem with is how, in these forums, the people who support illegal immigration are never complained about. I'm talking about the owners of the businesses that hire these people. Aren't they committing crimes as well? Shouldn't they be shown the same disdain that the illegal immigrants are being shown?
The next time you hire a cheap contractor, a cheap Phillipino nurse, buy cheap fruit, hire a cheap landscaper, hire a cheap babysitter or maid ask yourself, "Am I supporting illegal immigrants?"
As far as the comments about race or culture not being a factor, I call BS on that since so many of the posts that complain about illegal immigration are always accompanied by complaints about run down neighborhoods or neighborhoods where all the signs are in Spanish or about people who don't speak English. My grandmother was a LEGAL (as are all of us in my family) immigrant and she never learned the language enough to even hold a conversation (though she managed to communicate enough to get people to understand her) but she paid her taxes and worked her butt off cleaning houses and raising spoiled rich mothers' children pretty much her whole life. None of them ever minded her speaking English and none of them ever asked her about her resident status in this country.
I'm educated enough to realize that this is just the current wave of intolerance that comes with a wave of immigration. It happened to the Europeans, the Chinese (who were also smuggled here illegaly), the Japanese, etc. They've all had the same complaints about run down neighborhoods, crime, being a burden on the economy, taking jobs from citizens and not speaking English filed on them by racists as well.
I don't have a problem with the elderly being unable to learn English - my own immigrant great grandmother was unable to. The rest of the family did learn, though.
I do have a problem with people who pontificate that I use a cheap contractor (myself), a cheap landscaper (my MIL), hire a cheap babysitter (my eldest dds), buy cheap fruit (hy-vee?) or vegetables (local farmers markets). How dare you assume so much about me? Because you may not value humanity enough to not profit from others misery, don't lay that on my head. And don't use that as an excuse to continue the exploitation of illegals. Because that is what it amounts to. Yes, 'community organizers' say its about ramping up a super minority and politicians see votes, but the reality is people are being used by businesses great and small yet both liberals and conservatives remain rather silent about that. Too much greed, not enough common sense.
Mexico has been roped as you stated because of Americans saying it is a Mexican problem. This isn't opinion, this is a fact. As far as the consulate, it isn't a key factor in the problem, but it is the Mexicans right to help the Mexican citizens. See once again, have you ever been to Mexico? Have you seen the middle class? There is a flourishing one here and I am part of it. I am a business owner and am considered middle class. I would think that about Americans be aware that the Mexican economy, maybe poor to your standards, is alive and doing very well. Mexico has a much smaller population than the U.S. and there is a lot of work here. I think it is pretty embarrassing that someone thinks that they are exported. Everyone has a choice in life and they make the choice to go to the states. Nobody sends them.
Well then, which is it? Is Mexico a desperately poor place where these poor immigrants are forced to become illegal in order to feed their family? Or is Mexico a thriving society with abundant opportunity? Make up your mind.
I remember a saying about how to make sure your own house was clean before you go into someone elses to criticize. As far as I am concerned, us Americans need to worry about our own internal problems, quit saying we are too good to do a job and take what is given to us. If we had taken care of business back many years ago then this problem might not have grown to the magnitude of today. It is out of control, but I will tell you this, as long as American has lazy Americans that won't go out and find themselves a job instead of waiting for the welfare check to come in the mail and having uncle sam support their grocery store visits, there will be work for the rest of the world. And who better to do it then people who want to work.
The only people who say Americans are too good to do certain jobs are the illegal immigrants and their supporters. Americans used to do those jobs because they were able to make a living at it. Now, illegals have scabbed down wages to do the point that Americans cannot afford to take those jobs. Let me repeat that for you 'Americans can no longer afford the jobs that illegals have taken over'.
Illegals can afford to work in a packing house getting paid $5 an hour because they are packed in small houses. Businesses can make more money not only lowering the payscale for illegals, but also cutting benefits to nothing and not worrying about providing a safe work environment. This is what faces your beloved countrymen when they come to the US illegally --- and that is why Americans will no longer work in those factories, or be hired by those contractors. It is to the American blue collar workers benefit for illegal scab labor to be deported. Luckily for many of them that would be back to the utopia known as Mexico.
The only people who say Americans are too good to do certain jobs are the illegal immigrants and their supporters. Americans used to do those jobs because they were able to make a living at it. Now, illegals have scabbed down wages to do the point that Americans cannot afford to take those jobs. Let me repeat that for you 'Americans can no longer afford the jobs that illegals have taken over'.
Illegals can afford to work in a packing house getting paid $5 an hour because they are packed in small houses. Businesses can make more money not only lowering the payscale for illegals, but also cutting benefits to nothing and not worrying about providing a safe work environment. This is what faces your beloved countrymen when they come to the US illegally --- and that is why Americans will no longer work in those factories, or be hired by those contractors. It is to the American blue collar workers benefit for illegal scab labor to be deported. Luckily for many of them that would be back to the utopia known as Mexico.
Agreed with your points but if American companies don't hire these people then many won't come here. I live in Arizona and we voted and approved of several anti-immigration laws except one....the law that would hold companies responsible if they hired an illegal. This is classic hypocrisy. We want to oppose illegal immigration but we don't want to hold ourselves (our companies) responsible for hiring illegals. Actions speak louder than words. Anyone can say anything on a forum but when it came time to voting and making a serious effort to derail immigration, they did nothing. The same voters that supported all of these other measures wouldn't support that one...gee I wonder why...maybe the fact that their business relies on illegal labor would not help them if the govt. started arresting people for hiring illegals.
For once, I would like the anti-illegal immigration enthusiasts besides myself to hold American companies responsible for perpetuating this! You can't selectively support some anti-immigration legislation and reject other types. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't hire illegals for your company and justify it because it makes you money and then ask for strict border enforcement. You are part of the problem and need to be punished as well.
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