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Old 11-18-2009, 02:31 AM
 
10,720 posts, read 16,836,441 times
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I'm sick of this issue being so black and white. To me this isn't a Republican vs Democratic or Liberal vs Conservative issue. To me, this is a common sense issue that people of all backgrounds can accept. And that is hate immigration but not the immigrants.

The problem I have is the people who are opposed to illegal immigration tend to also be racist, xenophobic, milita members and other hate group enthusiasts. Like these members, I'm also strictly opposed to illegal immigration. I share Lou Dobb's views but I'm also embarrassed to be associated with these groups because unlike them, I don't hate illegal immigrants or Mexicans. I understand their plight and if I was in their situation, I would do the same thing. However, I'm not in their situation and I'm an American citizen and it's our responsibility to protect our borders. I also don't agree with the sentimental attitudes toward illegal immigration and the soft stances on it.

I wonder what happened to people who can understand treating people with respect, compassion and decency? Just because you oppose illegal immigrations, it doesn't mean you lose those values. That's why I feel these anti-illegal stances goes beyond immigration and speaking English. Because a person who was simply just opposed to that would agree with what I'm saying and wouldn't harbor such resentment toward illegals.
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Old 11-18-2009, 04:45 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
I'm sick of this issue being so black and white. To me this isn't a Republican vs Democratic or Liberal vs Conservative issue. To me, this is a common sense issue that people of all backgrounds can accept. And that is hate immigration but not the immigrants.

The problem I have is the people who are opposed to illegal immigration tend to also be racist, xenophobic, milita members and other hate group enthusiasts. Like these members, I'm also strictly opposed to illegal immigration. I share Lou Dobb's views but I'm also embarrassed to be associated with these groups because unlike them, I don't hate illegal immigrants or Mexicans. I understand their plight and if I was in their situation, I would do the same thing. However, I'm not in their situation and I'm an American citizen and it's our responsibility to protect our borders. I also don't agree with the sentimental attitudes toward illegal immigration and the soft stances on it.

I wonder what happened to people who can understand treating people with respect, compassion and decency? Just because you oppose illegal immigrations, it doesn't mean you lose those values. That's why I feel these anti-illegal stances goes beyond immigration and speaking English. Because a person who was simply just opposed to that would agree with what I'm saying and wouldn't harbor such resentment toward illegals.
No one at all objects to humane deportations -- I think everyone is fine with the air conditioned white INS buses and decent food for people being deported. No one is suggesting the illegals be sent back the way they came even, no one is trying to force them to walk back across a hot desert, or even swim back. No one is for stuffing them into trunks of cars or packing them into unventilated semi-trailers or box cars to be sent back. They are returned in ways that are far better than they ways they came. They might arrive here dehydrated and starving but they are never sent back that way.

Massive out-of-control illegal immigration is not benefitting any country in the long run.
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Old 11-18-2009, 04:57 AM
 
10,720 posts, read 16,836,441 times
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Originally Posted by malamute View Post
No one at all objects to humane deportations -- I think everyone is fine with the air conditioned white INS buses and decent food for people being deported. No one is suggesting the illegals be sent back the way they came even, no one is trying to force them to walk back across a hot desert, or even swim back. No one is for stuffing them into trunks of cars or packing them into unventilated semi-trailers or box cars to be sent back. They are returned in ways that are far better than they ways they came. They might arrive here dehydrated and starving but they are never sent back that way.

Massive out-of-control illegal immigration is not benefitting any country in the long run.
I'm not talking about humane deportation. I'm talking about how illegals are demonized on a personal level to the point that people use hateful speech to describe them. Again, you are being argumentative and assuming I'm fine with illegal immigration to which I will tell you that I'm strictly opposed to it. However, I'm also not going to demonize illegals. Unfortunately, neocons can't practice that distinction.

Last edited by azriverfan.; 11-18-2009 at 05:07 AM..
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:12 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
I'm not talking about humane deportation. I'm talking about how illegals are demonized on a personal level to the point that people use hateful speech to describe them. Again, you are being argumentative and assuming I'm fine with illegal immigration to which I will tell you that I'm strictly opposed to it. However, I'm also not going to demonize illegals. Unfortunately, neocons can't practice that distinction.
Neocon???? Neocons are as pro-illegal immigration as you can get. Bush himself bent over backward to open the borders and make sure the immigration laws were not enforced. They are all about the cheap labor just as neolibs are for cheap labor.

You said we should be humane -- I never saw where anyone said it shouldn't be humane but what's not humane is bringing in millions of people when unemployment rates of Americans are over 10% and in some places already to 30%. There has been nothing at all humane about letting this problem get to the size it is.

Returning people to their own country isn't inhumane at all, in fact most countries have immigration laws of some kind, including Mexico itself.
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Old 11-18-2009, 06:09 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
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I have no problem demonizing illegal aliens-------------they are criminals and need to be treated as such. It is just the luck of the draw that most of 'em happen to be Spanish speaking Mestizos; I would feel that same way if they were Nordic White Swedes.
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Old 11-18-2009, 06:44 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
I'm sick of this issue being so black and white. To me this isn't a Republican vs Democratic or Liberal vs Conservative issue. To me, this is a common sense issue that people of all backgrounds can accept. And that is hate immigration but not the immigrants.

The problem I have is the people who are opposed to illegal immigration tend to also be racist, xenophobic, milita members and other hate group enthusiasts. Like these members, I'm also strictly opposed to illegal immigration. I share Lou Dobb's views but I'm also embarrassed to be associated with these groups because unlike them, I don't hate illegal immigrants or Mexicans. I understand their plight and if I was in their situation, I would do the same thing. However, I'm not in their situation and I'm an American citizen and it's our responsibility to protect our borders. I also don't agree with the sentimental attitudes toward illegal immigration and the soft stances on it.

I wonder what happened to people who can understand treating people with respect, compassion and decency? Just because you oppose illegal immigrations, it doesn't mean you lose those values. That's why I feel these anti-illegal stances goes beyond immigration and speaking English. Because a person who was simply just opposed to that would agree with what I'm saying and wouldn't harbor such resentment toward illegals.
First off why is it that the sympathizers for illegal aliens always use so-called hate groups as the prime example of the anti-illegal immigration movement? Why is it that they don't recognize that the bulk of the anti movement are made up of none racist, law abiding Americans for the rule of law? No, what they do is label anyone who opposes their agenda with these kind of labels just as you are doing now. Now THAT is hate!

Why shouldn't we resent the illegals among us who have not only violated our immigration laws but many other laws after they cross our border? Why shouldn't we resent them for stealing tax payer benefits and jobs? Why shouldn't we resent them for marching in our streets making demands they have no right to? Your sympathy is misplaced. If you are an American your sympathy should be towards your fellow Americans who have had to suffer the brunt of this invasion rather than calling us all haters, racists and xenophobes. That isn't what the majority of Americans for the rule of law are all about so why bring up so-called hate groups unless it is to smear us all or that your sympathy goes beyond what you are claiming? Justified resentment doesn't equate to hate. The word hate is used to muster up a nasty implication that it is the anti-illegals who are on the wrong side of this issue. Ain't gonna fly anymore!
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Old 11-18-2009, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
I'm sick of this issue being so black and white. To me this isn't a Republican vs Democratic or Liberal vs Conservative issue. To me, this is a common sense issue that people of all backgrounds can accept. And that is hate immigration but not the immigrants.

The problem I have is the people who are opposed to illegal immigration tend to also be racist, xenophobic, milita members and other hate group enthusiasts. Like these members, I'm also strictly opposed to illegal immigration. I share Lou Dobb's views but I'm also embarrassed to be associated with these groups because unlike them, I don't hate illegal immigrants or Mexicans. I understand their plight and if I was in their situation, I would do the same thing. However, I'm not in their situation and I'm an American citizen and it's our responsibility to protect our borders. I also don't agree with the sentimental attitudes toward illegal immigration and the soft stances on it.

I wonder what happened to people who can understand treating people with respect, compassion and decency? Just because you oppose illegal immigrations, it doesn't mean you lose those values. That's why I feel these anti-illegal stances goes beyond immigration and speaking English. Because a person who was simply just opposed to that would agree with what I'm saying and wouldn't harbor such resentment toward illegals.
Don’t you mean hate illegal immigration? I have no problem with legal immigrants.

Prior to the massive illegal alien marches in 2006, I had little interest in illegal immigration. However, after seeing thousands DEMANDING legalization while waving foreign flags, my attitude abruptly changed from indifference to disdain. It takes a heck of a lot of nerve to live in a country illegally, violate myriad laws, abuse taxpayers, and yet display no appreciation or respect. I am appalled by their arrogance and sense of entitlement, not by their skin color or national origin.

It is an unfair generalization to state that those opposed to illegal immigration “tend to also be” racists, xenophobes, etc., as though they are mutually inclusive. That is simply not true. Yes, there are some who fit that description, but they are certainly not the majority. Moreover, racists exist in every segment of society, including those advocating for illegal immigration.

There has been a concerted effort by the mainstream media and illegal alien apologists to demonize all opposition to illegal immigration. That’s a staple of their pro-illegal strategy. Obviously, and sadly, they have succeeded in convincing some that one cannot oppose illegal immigration without also hating illegals or being racist.

You claim to oppose illegal immigration, yet you do not hate illegals. Why is it possible for you, yet you consider racism and xenophobia to be the impetus for the vast majority of others who share your anti-illegal stance?

I do not hate illegal aliens. However, I do hate what illegal immigration has done to this country. If, by virtue of my anti-illegal stance, I am automatically labeled a racist/xenophobe, so be it. I know it isn’t true, and that’s all that matters.

BTW, “respect” is earned.
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:02 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
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It's like anyone who chooses to break some law -- you don't necessarily hate the shoplifter, the embezzler, the dead beat father, tax cheat and so on but you still expect to have laws enforced.
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
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Originally Posted by malamute View Post
It's like anyone who chooses to break some law -- you don't necessarily hate the shoplifter, the embezzler, the dead beat father, tax cheat and so on but you still expect to have laws enforced.
Absolutely!
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:37 AM
 
10,720 posts, read 16,836,441 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
It's like anyone who chooses to break some law -- you don't necessarily hate the shoplifter, the embezzler, the dead beat father, tax cheat and so on but you still expect to have laws enforced.
Right, like the serial killer too!

A person from a third world country who is starving and wants to provide a better life for his family is not the same as these criminals. This is not an excuse to avoid enforcing the law. Laws should be enforced.
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