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Old 11-18-2009, 08:44 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
60,734 posts, read 30,796,580 times
Reputation: 12942

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When I went to school, every time there was an election, be it national or local, we studied the US Constitution, and if it was a local election we also studied Texas history.
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Old 11-18-2009, 09:30 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,630,805 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Callo View Post
Okay, imagine this scenario:

The US economy has collapsed, unemployment is 30%, and the government is falling apart. In desperation, the army seizes power, suspends the constitution, and dismisses the government. The new ruler declares as one of his first acts to fix the crisis, to make all illegal aliens enemies of the state. Futhermore, he retroactively strips citizenship from all descendants of illegals, and their children as well, and authorizes anyone to arrest and/or kill them should they be discovered.

If finally given the opportunity, would you yourself use force to finally drive the invaders and their spawn out of our land for good?
Total fantasy. The time for "driving out" illegals, if that's what was the plan, would have been 50 years ago. At that time, there were few illegals, and little or no organized 'pro-illegal' movement. 'Driving out' illegals could have been done humanely and firmly...not a lot different from 'taking control' of any other non-violent offenders. A firm determination that we were serious about our borders would have elicited little 'shock'..it would have been seen as simply a 'fact of life', and the word would have gone out that if you wanted to come to America, you did so LEGALLY, or not at all...and that would have been that.

Today, it would not be possible to 'drive out' illegals unless society made an abrupt turn toward a fascist nightmare. Nobody can 'tell' an illegal by simply looking; illegals are not willing to leave voluntarily; and civilians trying to 'find' and eject illegals would precipitate a state of total chaos in society.

LONG before that happened the 'authorities' would clamp down, suspend ALL civil rights, and prevent ALL 'assemblies' and free speech, and NOBODY would have the ability to do ANYTHING to ANYBODY. And somewhere along this period, America would cease to be a society worth living in, anyway...and we'd have FAR worse things to worry about than illegals. In fact, at some point, things would deteriorate to the point that most illegals would be GLAD to leave....and we'd envy them for having a place to go.

Welcome to multiculturalism...where nothing is WRONG, so therefore nothing is right, either...and since nobody's setting the 'rules of behavior', the 'authorities' will step in and set them FOR us, (at our own request)...and we ALL lose...legals, illegals, and everyone in between.

But civilian homeowners, "hunting" illegals? Penalizing the DESCENDANTS of violators?(i.e., their "spawn" ) No...sorry...that's a total fantasy.

Last edited by macmeal; 11-18-2009 at 10:07 PM..
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:27 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
60,734 posts, read 30,796,580 times
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Quote:
Would you fight against illegals if given the chance?
Chance is really not the right word or ending, of that sentence.

It is not about chance. It is about my back being against a wall.
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:32 PM
 
Location: California
706 posts, read 797,132 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Chance is really not the right word or ending, of that sentence.

It is not about chance. It is about my back being against a wall.
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:12 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,085,714 times
Reputation: 2244
No i would not.

so you are saying any descendant of illegals, or illegals themseves would be my enemy?how would I verify citizenship? can i shoot kids who refuse to leave (even tho they were born here)? how many generations would this go back.

it would be funny to see how many people would be suprised by [illegal] skeletons in their closet.

its a silly silly scenario.

it wont happen. we are not in that type of situation. even if we were i dont think the PEOPLE are stupid enough to engage in ground combat. that would turn the whole country into a warzone. it would not really fix the economic crisis. AND it would only make it easier for a gov't takeover by Iran, or china, or NOrth Korea.

it really is a stupid scenario.

i may not like some of the effects of illegal immigration, but i defintely wont kill someone over it. anyone who would kill someone for being in the country illegally needs a head/moral check.
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:43 PM
 
Location: NC
10,005 posts, read 8,731,617 times
Reputation: 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Callo View Post
Okay, imagine this scenario:

The US economy has collapsed, unemployment is 30%, and the government is falling apart. In desperation, the army seizes power, suspends the constitution, and dismisses the government. The new ruler declares as one of his first acts to fix the crisis, to make all illegal aliens enemies of the state. Futhermore, he retroactively strips citizenship from all descendants of illegals, and their children as well, and authorizes anyone to arrest and/or kill them should they be discovered.

If finally given the opportunity, would you yourself use force to finally drive the invaders and their spawn out of our land for good?
I am quite anti-illegal immigration, but that sounds a bit too much like Nazi Germany for me. If I was in such a situation and had to fight someone...it would be the dictator who has trampled the constitution and destroyed the fundamental American ideas of rule of law and government by the people.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,908,828 times
Reputation: 6517
I wasn't going to post on this thread because I try to avoid fantacy football type threads.
I decided to play.
In the event that our Government collapsed and the Military saw the need to take over. ( I trust military leadership over politicians any day of the week).
And

If in the event foreign born and illegals massed together and presented a clear danger to my nation, fellow citizens.
I would bring to bear all the training and all the skills I learned while I myself served.
I would not target unarmed citizens legal or otherwise. I would not target children or the elderly.
I would target any armed hostile and I would make them dead. I would do so as long as I was able or asked to stand down by the authority of my government Military or civilian.
make no mistake my priority would be to eliminate the threat to my country, my family and my friends.
This is a fantacy so am I allowed to use photon torpedo's and phasers?
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:57 PM
 
1,150 posts, read 992,320 times
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<<If finally given the opportunity, would you yourself use force to finally drive the invaders and their spawn out of our land for good?>>

Not unless I felt threatened, but with the scenario you set up, illegal immigrants would be the first to leave. There wouldn't be many here to fight.
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Old 11-19-2009, 03:01 PM
 
Location: AZ
1,046 posts, read 3,018,324 times
Reputation: 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
( I trust military leadership over politicians any day of the week).
Not I. While I would agree that a General is more trustworthy and decent then your average politician, If you get the wrong military commander it could be pretty scary. Most politicians don't believe a quarter of what they are saying. They are just spouting off for the lowest common denominator. There are plenty of "Crazy Christian" Military personal( and it's getting worse)that would love to have a Christian Theocracy (ie Christian Taliban) in this country. I'll take a lying Pol over that anyday.

No I wouldn't hunt "illegals". I would definitely buy some firearms and move closer to the border....Canadian border.
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Old 11-19-2009, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,908,828 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by roundball View Post
Not I. While I would agree that a General is more trustworthy and decent then your average politician, If you get the wrong military commander it could be pretty scary. Most politicians don't believe a quarter of what they are saying. They are just spouting off for the lowest common denominator. There are plenty of "Crazy Christian" Military personal( and it's getting worse)that would love to have a Christian Theocracy (ie Christian Taliban) in this country. I'll take a lying Pol over that anyday.

No I wouldn't hunt "illegals". I would definitely buy some firearms and move closer to the border....Canadian border.
There you have it. Good generals would not tolerate a bad general. Those we do have are forced upon us by our civilian leadership.
But lets face reality. The US military is the most advanced, well trained fighting force on the planet. Would they really need civilians to enter the fight?
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