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Old 11-18-2009, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
4,933 posts, read 8,701,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDBorn View Post
I take it you disagree that English is the unifying language of our country then?
English for some, miniature American flags for all.

 
Old 11-18-2009, 02:46 PM
 
8,187 posts, read 7,922,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
In what circumstance is this relevant? For example, in my office there is a woman who comes in on the nightly cleaning crew who is originally from Mexico. She does speak a decent amount of English as well but when I see her we always speak to each other in Spanish because she's more comfortable using it. It isn't work related, just small talk chit chat. Do you consider this exchange bad form, rude and believe that it shouldn't be done?
If co-workers are chatting in a language that they know other co-workers cannot understand it is placing a wedge in work relationships. Why do that? Why deliberately exclude other people?
On your lunch hour speak whatever you want -- as you are leaving and you want to say 'hi' to the cleaning crew in Spanish, go for it. But to speak a language you know co-workers do not understand is rude and I have to wonder why one would want to be so cliquish at work?


In regards to driver's license exams I don't think taking the exam in another language necessarily means that the individual cannot speak English, in most circumstances he or she knows an adequate amount of English but it is the person's second language and he/she feels more comfortable taking written exams in his/her primary language. Everything that the person needs to know in English (signage, etc.) is kept in English for the purpose of the exam but other than that I don't believe English is at all necessary to drive. Look at all the Americans who drive into Mexico, should they not be allowed to drive through the border if they aren't proficient in Spanish? After all, all the signage there is in Spanish, isn't it?
Truthfully I don't think people ought to be allowed to drive in foreign countries unless they are fluent in the language. Any country, any language. Sure, signs are usually pretty easy to interpret with only a passing familiarity of another language, but nowadays (at least in the US) electronic billboards and signage is in common use. For those one has to be able to read and understand English immediately or risk getting into an accident.
I'm not 100% sure but I believe the citizenship exam is in English only. I'll have to double-check on that though.


Like I said, by circumstance they are clumped together but the two issues should be recognized as separate in nature. The use of non-English languages is something that covers a much greater group of people in the country than undocumented aliens.
Then organizations that place a high priority on ethnocentric identity ought to be more careful.
 
Old 11-18-2009, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
4,933 posts, read 8,701,004 times
Reputation: 1642
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
If co-workers are chatting in a language that they know other co-workers cannot understand it is placing a wedge in work relationships. Why do that? Why deliberately exclude other people?
On your lunch hour speak whatever you want -- as you are leaving and you want to say 'hi' to the cleaning crew in Spanish, go for it. But to speak a language you know co-workers do not understand is rude and I have to wonder why one would want to be so cliquish at work?
Yeah, ok. If you feel so strongly this way then I urge you to bring this to the HR department of your employer to include in their respectful workplace policies. Oh, and good luck with that.

Quote:
Truthfully I don't think people ought to be allowed to drive in foreign countries unless they are fluent in the language. Any country, any language. Sure, signs are usually pretty easy to interpret with only a passing familiarity of another language, but nowadays (at least in the US) electronic billboards and signage is in common use. For those one has to be able to read and understand English immediately or risk getting into an accident.
Once again, good luck getting that passed. If every country did that you know how many business travelers wouldn't be able to get to their meeting or be required to figure out the local public transportation system instead of renting a car. I bet the car rental companies would be real happy to see that policy put into place.
 
Old 11-18-2009, 03:06 PM
 
8,187 posts, read 7,922,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
Yeah, ok. If you feel so strongly this way then I urge you to bring this to the HR department of your employer to include in their respectful workplace policies. Oh, and good luck with that.

But is it rude? Yes, it is. Would you feel left out if your co-workers spoke a language you could not understand in front of you everyday?
Yes or no.
Once again, good luck getting that passed. If every country did that you know how many business travelers wouldn't be able to get to their meeting or be required to figure out the local public transportation system instead of renting a car. I bet the car rental companies would be real happy to see that policy put into place.
Instead of being snide, how about address the fact that not being able to read and understand the electronic signs on the interstate and highways could lead to an accident. It is not xeonophobic to be concerned about this - rather it is a real concern.
 
Old 11-18-2009, 03:06 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
5,680 posts, read 2,290,141 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrence81 View Post
Oh come on invaders? That's a little much don't you think? Again going back to the whole xenophobia thing. So someone doesn't speak English big deal. Is it annoying? Yes but there are bigger things in this life. My point was the fact you're worrying about what two folks are doing that has nothing to do with you. If the person was hired and they have poor speaking and comprehension skill its really the fault of the person who hired them.
I am pointing out the difference between 'immigrants' and 'invaders'.

Immigrants come to a new country because they want to be there to better themselves or any number of reasons. They look forward to becoming a citizen and try to learn the language and customs of the country they want to live in.

Invaders come to a new country to take advantage of the wealth of that country. They have no desire to learn the language and customs of the country they wish to rob.

So which are they (those who refuse to assimilate); immigrants or invaders?

Actions speak louder than words (in any language).
Words can lie.
Actions speak for themselves.
 
Old 11-18-2009, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Edgewater, Florida
607 posts, read 310,653 times
Reputation: 829
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Let me put it this way: since a lot of people would love to move here: why should we settle for a bunch of ignorant Third Worlders when we can accept educated English speaking Nigerians, Brits, Filipinos, Mexicans, etc. instead??

Again: no amnesty for a bunch of criminals.
The United States of America can become a third world country someday, so do you mean everyone in this country would be considered ignorants?

How do YOU personally know who is a criminal and who is not?

I do not believe everyone who is Illegal is a criminal

There is a bunch of Legal born people where I live that are CRIMINALS


I think people in this Country are scared
because in about 6 years we (AMERICANS) are going to be the minorities.
 
Old 11-18-2009, 03:09 PM
 
303 posts, read 201,526 times
Reputation: 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
English for some, miniature American flags for all.
What do you mean by that? In order to be in this country legally, meaning become a naturalized citizen, you must speak English and you must take an oath of allegiance and renounce your previous citizenship and allegiance to your homeland.
 
Old 11-18-2009, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
4,933 posts, read 8,701,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDBorn View Post
What do you mean by that? In order to be in this country legally, meaning become a naturalized citizen, you must speak English and you must take an oath of allegiance and renounce your previous citizenship and allegiance to your homeland.
You sure about that? What about people who are here with visitor's visas, student visas, fiance visas and permanent residency cards? Are you saying they aren't in the country legally? If that's the case than I would assume that your definition of legal is different than that of U.S. law?
 
Old 11-18-2009, 03:21 PM
 
303 posts, read 201,526 times
Reputation: 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
You sure about that? What about people who are here with visitor's visas, student visas, fiance visas and permanent residency cards? Are you saying they aren't in the country legally? If that's the case than I would assume that your definition of legal is different than that of U.S. law?
I specified, "meaning become a naturalized citizen", therefore, yes I am sure about that. To clarify, in order to become a naturalized citizen you must be able to read, write and speak basic English AND you must take an oath renouncing your previous homeland and profess allegiance to this country.

So what did you mean by your statement about english for some minature flags for all?
 
Old 11-18-2009, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
4,933 posts, read 8,701,004 times
Reputation: 1642
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDBorn View Post
I specified, "meaning become a naturalized citizen", therefore, yes I am sure about that. To clarify, in order to become a naturalized citizen you must be able to read, write and speak basic English AND you must take an oath renouncing your previous homeland and profess allegiance to this country.

So what did you mean by your statement about english for some minature flags for all?
Right, but by saying "In order to be in this country legally, meaning become a naturalized citizen" you are assuming that unless you become a naturalized citizen that you are not in the country legally, when that in fact is not true at all. You can have permanent residency and live your entire life in the US without becoming a citizen and you'd still be in the country legally, you can work legally, do pretty much everything a citizen can do except vote.

The miniature American flags comment was a joke, obviously you don't want The Simpsons.
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