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Old 11-19-2009, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
On the flip side there are many more racists among the pro-illegals then there is among the anti-illegals. Most who advocate for them share the same ethnicity and that is why they want amnesty for them. They would have a fit though if these illegals were mostly white, asian, black or some other non-hispanic ethnicitiy. Most pro-illegals are using illegal immigration to turn our country into another hispanic country by sheer numbers and to gain poltical power in this country. How racist is that? If I were to advocate for millions of anglos to invade Mexico illegally so we could turn it into a non-hispanic country how would the pro-illegals or the Mexicans in Mexico feel about that? No need to answer because we know the answer. Their views are not only racist but hypocritical. Bet they wouldn't be called bigots or xenophones though for wanting to protect their country and its culture from foreign invasion. Can we say "double standard"?
The odds are growing that such may come to pass if Mexico deteriorates much further. Already; the business people in Juarez want to request 'blue helmets' (UN troops) since the Mx police/military are basically useless in dealing with the drug cartels.

It would not surprise me to see us take over at least northern Mexico by default; quite possibly via Nuevo Leon, etc. pulling a 'Texas 1836'.
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Old 11-19-2009, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Edgewater, Florida
883 posts, read 449,435 times
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Because Race has nothing to do with a person being Illegal.
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Old 11-19-2009, 04:46 PM
 
26 posts, read 38,525 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I agree. Although I speak Spanish myself, it is NOT the language of 'mainstream America'. Speaking a 'foreign' language of any kind in public, in America, among those who may NOT speak it, when you yourself are capable of English, is not 'wrong'...is not illegal...and should not be forbidden. But it CAN irritate, it CAN cause division, and it CAN be looked at as 'showing off' and 'calling attention to yourself'. No law against THAT, of course...but that's the way it works.

Many years ago, in the days of 'common sense', my Spanish-speaking Mother-in-Law had a 'rule'...(she had LOTS of rules). And one rule was, "it's rude to speak Spanish, in front of people who don't". That was a LONG time ago, and she has since passed away...but I believe it's still true..it's not WRONG, but it's RUDE...just like loud cell-phone convesrations in public, loud 'shouting matches', bragging, and intimate conversations in front of strangers are rude...not illegal; not to be 'banned'..but certainly rude.

Foreign travelers are not expected to know the local language...but permanent residents are....and MOST people can tell the difference. Makes sense to me...though I realize many will differ..and I have no real defense, except to say it's rude. It should NOT be made illegal, but those who do it should be aware that they're irritating others. If that's OK with them, then of course, there's no reason to change. If, on the other hand, one wishes not to irritate those around him, a good way to do so is try to refrain from irritating behavior. If you know English, use it. If you have normal hearing, don't shout. And if you want to engage in a cell-phone argument, do it outdoors...not in a packed waiting room. And PLEASE...get rid of those stupid bumper stickers. I don't CARE if your other car is a Porsche...and the fact that you'd "rather be skiing" doesn't impress me one bit...it's nothing more than bragging. Grow up.

But none of these things should be forbidden...they should be matters of common courtesy.
Exactly. Speaking a foreign language in the U.S. should most definitely NOT be forbidden. However, if the vast majority of illegal aliens currently residing in the U.S. insist on speaking Spanish in public, then they have to expect that most Americans are going to view this as rude and, in certain circumstances, even hostile toward Americans. Americans' negative reaction to hearing so much Spanish spoken around them isn't a knee-jerk xenophobic or racist response; rather, it's a normal, human response to rude and beligerant behavior.
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Old 11-19-2009, 05:05 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JA1961 View Post
Exactly. Speaking a foreign language in the U.S. should most definitely NOT be forbidden. However, if the vast majority of illegal aliens currently residing in the U.S. insist on speaking Spanish in public, then they have to expect that most Americans are going to view this as rude and, in certain circumstances, even hostile toward Americans. Americans' negative reaction to hearing so much Spanish spoken around them isn't a knee-jerk xenophobic or racist response; rather, it's a normal, human response to rude and beligerant behavior.
That has been my position on this all along. I am not a bigot for having these normal feeelings. Hearing Spanish all day long reminds us of just how many illegal aliens there are here from south of our border. As I said, it is like pouring salt into an already festered wound.

If they are legally here or a citizen then I believe it is an a non-assimilation issue. Should it be made illegal? No, but it is just plain rude IMO. I don't care what language one speaks at home so I see no deprivation there. No one is asking someone to give up their native culture or language per se just to respect ours out in public.

Last edited by chicagonut; 11-19-2009 at 05:22 PM..
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Old 11-19-2009, 06:08 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
If they are legally here or a citizen then I believe it is an a non-assimilation issue. Should it be made illegal? No, but it is just plain rude IMO. I don't care what language one speaks at home so I see no deprivation there. No one is asking someone to give up their native culture or language per se just to respect ours out in public.
We've written at length on 'assimilation'....and how it occurs less and less each year, and how the definition of the term has changed over the years so it doesn't really "mean much" anymore anyway, whether it occurs or not...one can call himself 'assimilated' if he knows how to use a cell phone, I suppose...but the original concept involved much more than that.

Nothing I can do about assimilation, but your use of the term 'respect' caught my attention. That's one more casualty of Political Correctness. Whereas 'respect' was once understood as meaning "to hold in esteem", and to give deference to a person or an institutution because it was good, worthwhile, or admirable.....in recent years "respect" often is used to mean simply being afraid of someone, or intimidated.

There's a difference in the 'respect' given a brilliant scientist, or a notable leader, or a culture of openness and civil liberties, and the FEAR one feels for a glowering group of gang-bangers, a mindless mob of demonstrators, or a thug in high office. Unfortunately, though, today ALL these various emotions fall under the definition of 'respect'. As usual, the ultimate outcome is that today, "respect" can mean all KINDS of things, negative or positive, and therefore it often means nothing. One more term rendered meaningless by PC.
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Old 11-19-2009, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
608 posts, read 791,184 times
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Anytime I hear people claim that being against illegal immigration is an act of racism I can only laugh or shake my head. How much more warped can our sense of pollitical correctness become? Illegal means "against the law." How can it be contrived that not wanting proven law breakers (aka potential criminals) in the USA is racist?
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Old 11-19-2009, 08:17 PM
 
10,720 posts, read 16,836,441 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JA1961 View Post
Exactly. Speaking a foreign language in the U.S. should most definitely NOT be forbidden. However, if the vast majority of illegal aliens currently residing in the U.S. insist on speaking Spanish in public, then they have to expect that most Americans are going to view this as rude and, in certain circumstances, even hostile toward Americans. Americans' negative reaction to hearing so much Spanish spoken around them isn't a knee-jerk xenophobic or racist response; rather, it's a normal, human response to rude and beligerant behavior.
Again, how is it rude if people are speaking Spanish amongst themselves in public? Why do you care? They are not speaking to you. It's their conversation. If they want to speak in Klingon or make hand gestures, I could care less. It's not rude at all. The fact that this is considered rude is just a joke. Seriously, do you guys have nothing better to get angry at? I mean it would be one thing if they were speaking to you in Spanish knowing you don't understand it but if they have a conversation amongst themselves, it's not rude if they are not speaking English. It's kind of like accusing strangers of being rude for whispering when you are trying to eaves drop on their conversation. If that sounds ridiculous, that's how assinine your argument is.

This is just common sense. If a couple is at a restaurant and they are speaking to their waiter in their foreign language, that is rude. If they are having dinner amongst themselves, they can speak whatever language they want. It's not rude because you have nothing to do with their conversation. That is not a normal human reaction. That is a reaction of a xenophobic and bigoted person because they are "not speaking my language" Most normal and intelligent people would not be the least bit offended because they know it's rude to listen in on people's conversations and wouldn't care because they realize that their business. If anything is rude it's the expectation that people must be forced to speak English even in private conversation amongst themselves, talk about a fascist notion.

Last edited by azriverfan.; 11-19-2009 at 08:28 PM..
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Old 11-19-2009, 08:27 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
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Are you still here? How many times does it have to be explained to you before it sinks in?
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Old 11-19-2009, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
Again, how is it rude if people are speaking Spanish amongst themselves in public? Why do you care? They are not speaking to you. It's their conversation. If they want to speak in Klingon or make hand gestures, I could care less. It's not rude at all. The fact that this is considered rude is just a joke. Seriously, do you guys have nothing better to get angry at? I mean it would be one thing if they were speaking to you in Spanish knowing you don't understand it but if they have a conversation amongst themselves, it's not rude if they are not speaking English. It's kind of like accusing strangers of being rude for whispering when you are trying to eaves drop on their conversation. If that sounds ridiculous, that's how assinine your argument is.

This is just common sense. If a couple is at a restaurant and they are speaking to their waiter in their foreign language, that is rude. If they are having dinner amongst themselves, they can speak whatever language they want. It's not rude because you have nothing to do with their conversation. That is not a normal human reaction. That is a reaction of a xenophobic and bigoted person because they are "not speaking my language" Most normal and intelligent people would not be the least bit offended because they know it's rude to listen in on people's conversations and wouldn't care because they realize that their business. If anything is rude it's the expectation that people must be forced to speak English even in private conversation amongst themselves, talk about a fascist notion.
One phrase comes to mind: guilt by association. If it were any other language (Portuguese, Catalon, French, German, Gaelic, Chinese, etc.) the hostility would not be near as great. Just that the vast majority of illegal aliens are some variety of 'Hispanic' coupled with their disgusting amnesty demands have incensed too many Americans.
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Old 11-19-2009, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
One phrase comes to mind: guilt by association. If it were any other language (Portuguese, Catalon, French, German, Gaelic, Chinese, etc.) the hostility would not be near as great. Just that the vast majority of illegal aliens are some variety of 'Hispanic' coupled with their disgusting amnesty demands have incensed too many Americans.
Bear makes a valid point.
For example. Skate boarders. Most are not so bad to deal with. But enough of them are rude and reckless. When I see skater boys I go out of my way to avoid them. Not because I fear them but because I know I might get annoyed with them enough to do something about it.
Dented doors and fenders from flying skate boards are a very real issue.
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