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Old 11-20-2009, 01:50 PM
 
26 posts, read 38,519 times
Reputation: 28

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Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
You are not going to get me to agree to your bigoted and fascist view. You feel empowered because you have the same 2 people agree with you on every post. You should feel embarrassed that you think it's rude that people can't speak a foreign language in a private conversation amongst themselves in a public setting. There just aren't enough normal people in this forum to tell you what I'm telling you because they realize most of the people in here think like you.
It just stuns me how quick you are to label someone a bigot and a racist. Do you consider the intensity and ramifications of your insult?

People in this thread have been trying to explain to you that our views do not stem from racist and bigoted feelings. When we hear Spanish spoken around us in public, we feel fear, not hatred. We fear for our OWN heritage and our country's identity and culture. We fear for our ways and traditions and our language and our prosperity. You might ask why something as seemingly benign as hearing Spanish spoken around us would elicit such feelings, and the answer is really very simple.

For those of us who live in sanctuary cities, or other cities that have a very high population of illegal aliens, hearing Spanish spoken around us is not an occasional occurence. We hear it constantly, as we shop in stores (not only are our fellow shoppers speaking Spanish, but the overhead radio is playing a Spanish station as well). We hear it amongst the employees in restaurants and fast food establishments, we hear it at the car wash, we hear it at the gas station, we hear it EVERYWHERE.

And we KNOW, deep in our hearts, that many MANY of the people speaking Spanish around us are (very likely) living in this country illegally. And we know, because we've witnessed it, that these people are (against our wills and without our permission), changing the culture, language and heritage of the U.S.

Now, you might think that the U.S. belongs to everybody, and that everybody should be able to come here at will and fly their mother country's flag, speak their native language, and flaunt their culture, but really....think about it. Is that truly within the bounds of human nature? Aren't we sort of biologically composed (for lack of a better term) to gravitate toward like-minded people and kindred spirits? Don't we feel more comfortable living amongst people who share our culture, traditions and language?

The anwer is a firm and resounding YES. And you and other pro-illegal immigration advocates know this. But it suits your pro-illegal immigration agenda to use the race card against us because it is a very quick way to diffuse us. But here, in this forum, many of us are on to these tactics, and we're not as intimidated as you might like us to be.

Lastly, and most important, the definition of "racism" isn't that one wants to live amongst those of their same culture; rather, the definition of racism is that one race believes it is superior to another race. Nobody in this forum has indicated that he/she feels superior to any race. What we have been telling you is that we feel uncomfortable with people breaking into this country illegally and then systematically chaning our language and culture. The race of these people is a NON-ISSUE to most of us (I admit there are some exceptions to this, obviously).

But nobody here (that I've read thus far) whom you have accused of being racist, has claimed that one race is superior to another.

Last edited by JA1961; 11-20-2009 at 02:07 PM..
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:14 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by JA1961 View Post
It just stuns me how quick you are to label someone a bigot and a racist. Do you consider the intensity and ramifications of your insult?

People in this thread have been trying to explain to you that our views do not stem from racist and bigoted feelings. When we hear Spanish spoken around us in public, we feel fear, not hatred. We fear for our OWN heritage and our country's identity and culture. We fear for our ways and traditions and our language and our prosperity. You might ask why something as seemingly benign as hearing Spanish spoken around us would elicit such feelings, and the answer is really very simple.

For those of us who live in sanctuary cities, or other cities that have a very high population of illegal aliens, hearing Spanish spoken around us is not an occasional occurence. We hear it constantly, as we shop in stores (not only are our fellow shoppers speaking Spanish, but the overhead radio is playing a Spanish station as well). We hear it amongst the employees in restaurants and fast food establishments, we hear it at the car wash, we hear it at the gas station, we hear it EVERYWHERE.

And we KNOW, deep in our hearts, that many MANY of the people speaking Spanish around us are (very likely) living in this country illegally. And we know, because we've witnessed it, that these people are (against our wills and without our permission), changing the culture, language and heritage of the U.S.

Now, you might think that the U.S. belongs to everybody, and that everybody should be able to come here at will and fly their mother country's flag, speak their native language, and flaunt their culture, but really....think about it. Is that truly within the bounds of human nature? Aren't we sort of biologically composed (for lack of a better term) to gravitate toward like-minded people and kindred spirits? Don't we feel more comfortable living amongst people who share our culture, traditions and language?

The anwer is a firm and resounding YES. And you and other pro-illegal immigration advocates know this. But it suits your pro-illegal immigration agenda to use the race card against us because it is a very quick way to diffuse us. But here, in this forum, many of us are on to these tactics, and we're not as intimidated as you might like us to be.

Lastly, and most important, the definition of "racism" isn't that one wants to live amongst those of their same culture; rather, the definition of racism is that one race believes it is superior to another race. Nobody in this forum has indicated that he/she feels superior to any race. What we have been telling you is that we feel uncomfortable with people breaking into this country illegally and then systematically chaning our language and culture. The race of these people is a NON-ISSUE to most of us (I admit there are some exceptions to this, obviously).

But nobody here (that I've read thus far) whom you have accused of being racist, has claimed that one race is superior to another.
Thank you!!!!
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,878,727 times
Reputation: 6517
I am as anti illegal as anyone can be. The first amendment allows for freedom of speech. It may be rude, I know that my wife gets annoyed when I speak Thai in public when I don't want others to know what we are talking about. She says that it is rude. She is a true lady and I but a simple sailor. I will defer to her manners on this one. That said speaking spanish or thai or hindi while in public but in a private conversation is nobody's business. If it offends you stop trying to listen in.
Is it more wrong for people to speak spanish than say High school kids dropping the F word every other word? Is it more wrong than say rednecks using their favorite racial slurs well within ear shot of a black person? Its all protected by the first amend. My child is Autistic. She looks normal but acts anything but. I hear it often enough. Oh she is retarded. Its offensive. But I can't punch every ignorant jerk out that does it. Especially since it is usually a couple of women who can't mind their own business.
Like many of you I am annoyed that we have press 1 for spanish when I call a gov office, a bank, or when spanish speakers are allowed to have a friend help them on a drivers test even though they deny my wife the same benefit.
That said a private conversation even in a public place is still none of our business.
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:12 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
I am as anti illegal as anyone can be. The first amendment allows for freedom of speech. It may be rude, I know that my wife gets annoyed when I speak Thai in public when I don't want others to know what we are talking about. She says that it is rude. She is a true lady and I but a simple sailor. I will defer to her manners on this one. That said speaking spanish or thai or hindi while in public but in a private conversation is nobody's business. If it offends you stop trying to listen in.
Is it more wrong for people to speak spanish than say High school kids dropping the F word every other word? Is it more wrong than say rednecks using their favorite racial slurs well within ear shot of a black person? Its all protected by the first amend. My child is Autistic. She looks normal but acts anything but. I hear it often enough. Oh she is retarded. Its offensive. But I can't punch every ignorant jerk out that does it. Especially since it is usually a couple of women who can't mind their own business.
Like many of you I am annoyed that we have press 1 for spanish when I call a gov office, a bank, or when spanish speakers are allowed to have a friend help them on a drivers test even though they deny my wife the same benefit.
That said a private conversation even in a public place is still none of our business.
Perhaps you aren't comprehending the posts I have written and others in here who have the same objections on this issue. None of us has said that we are trying to listen in on other's conversations. It is about not being able to AVOID hearing Spanish all day long and what that implies to us. No other language is spoken with such frequency everywhere. All the other examples you gave may be offensive but they don't remind us on a constant basis that we have a huge illegal invasion from south of our border going on and the colonization and non-assimilation that is happening with both the legal and illegals who speak Spanish.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this.
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by JA1961 View Post
It just stuns me how quick you are to label someone a bigot and a racist. Do you consider the intensity and ramifications of your insult?

People in this thread have been trying to explain to you that our views do not stem from racist and bigoted feelings. When we hear Spanish spoken around us in public, we feel fear, not hatred. We fear for our OWN heritage and our country's identity and culture. We fear for our ways and traditions and our language and our prosperity. You might ask why something as seemingly benign as hearing Spanish spoken around us would elicit such feelings, and the answer is really very simple.

For those of us who live in sanctuary cities, or other cities that have a very high population of illegal aliens, hearing Spanish spoken around us is not an occasional occurence. We hear it constantly, as we shop in stores (not only are our fellow shoppers speaking Spanish, but the overhead radio is playing a Spanish station as well). We hear it amongst the employees in restaurants and fast food establishments, we hear it at the car wash, we hear it at the gas station, we hear it EVERYWHERE.

And we KNOW, deep in our hearts, that many MANY of the people speaking Spanish around us are (very likely) living in this country illegally. And we know, because we've witnessed it, that these people are (against our wills and without our permission), changing the culture, language and heritage of the U.S.

Now, you might think that the U.S. belongs to everybody, and that everybody should be able to come here at will and fly their mother country's flag, speak their native language, and flaunt their culture, but really....think about it. Is that truly within the bounds of human nature? Aren't we sort of biologically composed (for lack of a better term) to gravitate toward like-minded people and kindred spirits? Don't we feel more comfortable living amongst people who share our culture, traditions and language?

The anwer is a firm and resounding YES. And you and other pro-illegal immigration advocates know this. But it suits your pro-illegal immigration agenda to use the race card against us because it is a very quick way to diffuse us. But here, in this forum, many of us are on to these tactics, and we're not as intimidated as you might like us to be.

Lastly, and most important, the definition of "racism" isn't that one wants to live amongst those of their same culture; rather, the definition of racism is that one race believes it is superior to another race. Nobody in this forum has indicated that he/she feels superior to any race. What we have been telling you is that we feel uncomfortable with people breaking into this country illegally and then systematically chaning our language and culture. The race of these people is a NON-ISSUE to most of us (I admit there are some exceptions to this, obviously).

But nobody here (that I've read thus far) whom you have accused of being racist, has claimed that one race is superior to another.
Suffice to say: whenever an ethnicentrist tries to hit me with the 'race card' (which no longer works)-------my retort is that I am extremely prejudiced against illegal aliens since they are criminal losers. Said ethnocentrists cringe
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,247,801 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
I am as anti illegal as anyone can be. The first amendment allows for freedom of speech. It may be rude, I know that my wife gets annoyed when I speak Thai in public when I don't want others to know what we are talking about. She says that it is rude. She is a true lady and I but a simple sailor. I will defer to her manners on this one. That said speaking spanish or thai or hindi while in public but in a private conversation is nobody's business. If it offends you stop trying to listen in.
Is it more wrong for people to speak spanish than say High school kids dropping the F word every other word? Is it more wrong than say rednecks using their favorite racial slurs well within ear shot of a black person? Its all protected by the first amend. My child is Autistic. She looks normal but acts anything but. I hear it often enough. Oh she is retarded. Its offensive. But I can't punch every ignorant jerk out that does it. Especially since it is usually a couple of women who can't mind their own business.
Like many of you I am annoyed that we have press 1 for spanish when I call a gov office, a bank, or when spanish speakers are allowed to have a friend help them on a drivers test even though they deny my wife the same benefit.
That said a private conversation even in a public place is still none of our business.
It depends where you are. Racial slurs, calling somebody retarded, etc. cannot be done in the workplace, at school, etc. If you do that where I work you will probably be terminated. Could you be terminated for speaking Spanish in the workplace? No, I can't think of a single scenario where you would. So in that sense those two situations are not equal.
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,878,727 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
It depends where you are. Racial slurs, calling somebody retarded, etc. cannot be done in the workplace, at school, etc. If you do that where I work you will probably be terminated. Could you be terminated for speaking Spanish in the workplace? No, I can't think of a single scenario where you would. So in that sense those two situations are not equal.
Fair enough. But like I said a public place. A work place is private, a school is gov property. etc. I am talking about say a resturant or a store.
That said if you are not part of a conversation, not invited to the conversation why do you care what language is used?
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
It depends where you are. Racial slurs, calling somebody retarded, etc. cannot be done in the workplace, at school, etc. If you do that where I work you will probably be terminated. Could you be terminated for speaking Spanish in the workplace? No, I can't think of a single scenario where you would. So in that sense those two situations are not equal.
Even if speaking a language other than English may be 'legal': other languages; especially Spanish, could give a person in charge (employer, cop, etc) probable cause to investigate.
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:46 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,076,327 times
Reputation: 822
Well, the sad truth is that many are racist, but more are ethnocentrist. Some are not racist, but this tends to draw a higher number of racists as compared to other causes. The rationale is the following:
1)Mexicans=most illegals
2) Illegal=wrong
3) If Mexican=illegal and illegal=wrong, then Mexican=Wrong.

The association between Mexican and illegal is made. They do not take the time to consider the rammifications, root causes, and alternatives to this logic.

Ethnocentric tendencies tend to run VERY high on this forum. Speak only English, no ESL, etc...are very common posts on here. It's a relatively thin line to go from ethnocentrist to racist.

As for "pro-illegal", the majority of people asking for complete open borders are most likely college educated idealists. There is a relatively large contingent of people who are college educated, White, and middle class...highly liberal...that believe in the concept of open borders. In theory, not a bad concept. However, there are many steps to achieve economic parity with other nations untill we can open our borders to the world.

Most "pro-illegal" people are not "pro-illegal", but rather feel that a comprimise of sorts can be achieved.
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,247,801 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Even if speaking a language other than English may be 'legal': other languages; especially Spanish, could give a person in charge (employer, cop, etc) probable cause to investigate.
Investigate what? Who would want to waste their time?
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