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Old 11-20-2009, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,893 posts, read 12,261,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Fair enough. But like I said a public place. A work place is private, a school is gov property. etc. I am talking about say a resturant or a store.
That said if you are not part of a conversation, not invited to the conversation why do you care what language is used?
Once again, I don't entirely agree. If people are at a restaurant speaking loud enough for other people to hear and they are saying things that are perceived as racist and offensive they can be asked to leave by the manager (if it is creating a hostile workplace for employees or a hostile environment for other guests). This happens all the time. Guests at a restaurant will never be asked to leave if they are speaking in another language as long as it is done at a respectable conversational level (if they are screaming in Spanish that'd be a different story, but wouldn't be at all related to the language being used.)
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:53 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,081,161 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Even if speaking a language other than English may be 'legal': other languages; especially Spanish, could give a person in charge (employer, cop, etc) probable cause to investigate.
Case in point...
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Old 11-20-2009, 04:08 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,622,827 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
Once again, I don't entirely agree. If people are at a restaurant speaking loud enough for other people to hear and they are saying things that are perceived as racist and offensive they can be asked to leave by the manager (if it is creating a hostile workplace for employees or a hostile environment for other guests). This happens all the time. Guests at a restaurant will never be asked to leave if they are speaking in another language as long as it is done at a respectable conversational level (if they are screaming in Spanish that'd be a different story, but wouldn't be at all related to the language being used.)
I was in a bar once when a couple of guys were conversing in sign language. No one objected. Two others joined them, however, and soon they got into a heated sign-language argument; one accidentally knocked a glass off the bar. The bartender stepped in, and asked them to tone down the gestures...which worked for awhile. Presently, however, after a few more drinks, they began singing (and signing) old Show Tunes at the 'top of their lungs', gesticulating wildly, and finally, refusing to 'quiet down', they were asked to leave.

A PRIVATE conversation in sign-language is one thing; a "loud" sign-language commotion, though, can annoy others...("loud", in this case, being a relative term).
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Old 11-20-2009, 04:25 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,157,849 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Well, the sad truth is that many are racist, but more are ethnocentrist. Some are not racist, but this tends to draw a higher number of racists as compared to other causes. The rationale is the following:
1)Mexicans=most illegals
2) Illegal=wrong
3) If Mexican=illegal and illegal=wrong, then Mexican=Wrong.

The association between Mexican and illegal is made. They do not take the time to consider the rammifications, root causes, and alternatives to this logic.

Ethnocentric tendencies tend to run VERY high on this forum. Speak only English, no ESL, etc...are very common posts on here. It's a relatively thin line to go from ethnocentrist to racist.

As for "pro-illegal", the majority of people asking for complete open borders are most likely college educated idealists. There is a relatively large contingent of people who are college educated, White, and middle class...highly liberal...that believe in the concept of open borders. In theory, not a bad concept. However, there are many steps to achieve economic parity with other nations untill we can open our borders to the world.

Most "pro-illegal" people are not "pro-illegal", but rather feel that a comprimise of sorts can be achieved.
I agree with 1. and 2. but disagree with 3. There is nothing ethnocentric or racist about expecting Americans or non-citizens to respect the language of this country enough to converse with it out in public. Granting there are exceptions to the rule.

I used to work for a place where the rule was to speak English while on duty at work. Breaks and lunches were the exception. A memo was put up on the bulletin board to that effect. The only bi-lingual employees that took objection to it were Hispanics. One of them tore the memo off the board and threw it in the trash. We hired no illegal aliens either.
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Old 11-20-2009, 04:26 PM
 
51 posts, read 54,577 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
I am as anti illegal as anyone can be. The first amendment allows for freedom of speech. It may be rude, I know that my wife gets annoyed when I speak Thai in public when I don't want others to know what we are talking about. She says that it is rude. She is a true lady and I but a simple sailor. I will defer to her manners on this one. That said speaking spanish or thai or hindi while in public but in a private conversation is nobody's business. If it offends you stop trying to listen in.
Is it more wrong for people to speak spanish than say High school kids dropping the F word every other word? Is it more wrong than say rednecks using their favorite racial slurs well within ear shot of a black person? Its all protected by the first amend. My child is Autistic. She looks normal but acts anything but. I hear it often enough. Oh she is retarded. Its offensive. But I can't punch every ignorant jerk out that does it. Especially since it is usually a couple of women who can't mind their own business.
Like many of you I am annoyed that we have press 1 for spanish when I call a gov office, a bank, or when spanish speakers are allowed to have a friend help them on a drivers test even though they deny my wife the same benefit.
That said a private conversation even in a public place is still none of our business.
Sorry sir but I have to agree with your wife 1000000000000%. I was at the mall one day and I heard every single conversation/foreign language ever invented spoken loudly, despite the fact that these parties were allegedly having "private" conversations. It was so annoying that after an hour of encountering the tower of babble in every store that I entered, I left without buying anything. It was quite an awful shopping experience that left me wondering what the hell happened to MY country or rather what the hell country I was in.

There was a time in this country when it was considered rude to speak a foreign language in public places. While there is no law against it, is simply a matter of respect for the native country and her citizens, as well as those who not only couldn't give a flying fig about what you are saying, but care more about the fact that in doing so, it is not only rude but deliberate and in many cases with malice.

I don't care what language illegals and foreign transplants turned citizens speak at home, they can at the very least respect and speak the language of the country that they migrated to and not be rude and disrespectful in public.
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Old 11-20-2009, 04:34 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,081,161 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I agree with 1. and 2. but disagree with 3. There is nothing ethnocentric or racist about expecting Americans or non-citizens to respect the language of this country enough to converse with it out in public. Granting there are exceptions to the rule.

I used to work for a place where the rule was to speak English while on duty at work. Breaks and lunches were the exception. A memo was put up on the bulletin board to that effect. The only bi-lingual employees that took objection to it were Hispanics. One of them tore the memo off the board and threw it in the trash. We hired no illegal aliens either.
I speak French all in the time in public. If it's a private conversation then it is ethnocentric for you to want them to speak English. How about if you weren't in front of customers or others and you were fired for using another language...this has happened in the past. If language is used to convey an idea or action, then it really shouldn't matter.

I try not to overhear people's conversations in English. I don't give two flying DUCKS (replace D with F) what people say. It's their conversation. I do that out of respect. Why can't other's have the same respect?
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Old 11-20-2009, 04:35 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,081,161 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacktalon1 View Post
Sorry sir but I have to agree with your wife 1000000000000%. I was at the mall one day and I heard every single conversation/foreign language ever invented spoken loudly, despite the fact that these parties were allegedly having "private" conversations. It was so annoying that after an hour of encountering the tower of babble in every store that I entered, I left without buying anything. It was quite an awful shopping experience that left me wondering what the hell happened to MY country or rather what the hell country I was in.

There was a time in this country when it was considered rude to speak a foreign language in public places. While there is no law against it, is simply a matter of respect for the native country and her citizens, as well as those who not only couldn't give a flying fig about what you are saying, but care more about the fact that in doing so, it is not only rude but deliberate and in many cases with malice.

I don't care what language illegals and foreign transplants turned citizens speak at home, they can at the very least respect and speak the language of the country that they migrated to and not be rude and disrespectful in public.
It's more rude to overhear their conversation and try to pick up on what they are saying. It's more malicious to be as disdainful as you are.
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Old 11-20-2009, 04:37 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,091,945 times
Reputation: 1814
whats sad is that bleeding heart Americans are the only people who havent figured it out...lol.

Every other culture has figured it out. Including the Hispanic culture. They are highly interested in their own cultural preservation. But they realize that he single most unifying, and important aspect of a culture is having a common language of communication. Without that, all cultures are incomplete or they fail altogether (see: America). But Hispanics and particularly illegal immigrants have realized that if they retain their native tongue, whenever they have accrued the necessary numbers, they will have a monopoly on politics, and culture.

Its simple as that. The overt and overwhelming use of spanish is intended to 1) get Americans accustomed to hearing the language and desensitized to its use.. And 2) Indoctrinate their own Hispanic youth to remain loyal to their own culture. Granted there are a small few Hispanics who cannot speak spanish at all. But even they are outcasts among their culture.
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Old 11-20-2009, 04:42 PM
 
51 posts, read 54,577 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
It's more rude to overhear their conversation and try to pick up on what they are saying. It's more malicious to be as disdainful as you are.
Again, I don't give a flying fig what they are saying, I simply find it rude and ignorant that they feel it's necessary to shout it to the world at large. As for your name calling, I find it and you rude and ignorant as well.
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Old 11-20-2009, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,643,200 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
whats sad is that bleeding heart Americans are the only people who havent figured it out...lol.

Every other culture has figured it out. Including the Hispanic culture. They are highly interested in their own cultural preservation. But they realize that he single most unifying, and important aspect of a culture is having a common language of communication. Without that, all cultures are incomplete or they fail altogether (see: America). But Hispanics and particularly illegal immigrants have realized that if they retain their native tongue, whenever they have accrued the necessary numbers, they will have a monopoly on politics, and culture.

Its simple as that. The overt and overwhelming use of spanish is intended to 1) get Americans accustomed to hearing the language and desensitized to its use.. And 2) Indoctrinate their own Hispanic youth to remain loyal to their own culture. Granted there are a small few Hispanics who cannot speak spanish at all. But even they are outcasts among their culture.
And the irony is due to the White supremacy of Hispanic culture: the Mestizos and other 'brown' Latinos would be screwed with the influx of many White people.

Be careful what you ask for; la raza-----------you may rue the day that the USA went Hispanic.
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