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Old 11-20-2009, 05:38 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,156,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
That there aren't many Hispanics in SoCal that speak only English? Umm...it's simply a fact, not really much to argue with that.
I don't know what the percentage of Hispanics are that only speak English in Calif. Where are your stats? I never challenged that anyway what I said is that there is a huge number of them that either don't speak English at all (probably illegals) and that there are many bi-lingual Hispanics that always choose Spanish over English.
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Old 11-20-2009, 05:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Them ethnocentric? Not really...since you have no idea the intent. It makes you seem EXTREMELY uncomfortable with other cultures. How are they ignorant? By speaking another language? This is not a display of ignorance.

I do read well, and hence why when you state that you were so upset you were disrupted of your daily routine (you couldn't shop, thus a disruption)...the normal implication is that you WANT to understand the conversation. Otherwise, you would have gone on with your normal routine. It's really simple.
No, it isn't that simple. I understand what he is saying. I have had similar experiences. I go into a store and everywhere and non-stop they are all speaking Spanish and not in a soft tone either. It is irritating as hell and I don't give a damn what their conversation is about either. You keep insisting like it is nosiness when that isn't it at all. It's kind of like when you have to listen to someone's car alarm going off for a long time. After awhile you just want to get into your car and drive off or take an axe to their car, lol.
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Old 11-20-2009, 05:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Well, the sad truth is that many are racist, but more are ethnocentrist. Some are not racist, but this tends to draw a higher number of racists as compared to other causes. The rationale is the following:
1)Mexicans=most illegals
2) Illegal=wrong
3) If Mexican=illegal and illegal=wrong, then Mexican=Wrong.

The association between Mexican and illegal is made. They do not take the time to consider the rammifications, root causes, and alternatives to this logic.

Ethnocentric tendencies tend to run VERY high on this forum. Speak only English, no ESL, etc...are very common posts on here. It's a relatively thin line to go from ethnocentrist to racist.

As for "pro-illegal", the majority of people asking for complete open borders are most likely college educated idealists. There is a relatively large contingent of people who are college educated, White, and middle class...highly liberal...that believe in the concept of open borders. In theory, not a bad concept. However, there are many steps to achieve economic parity with other nations untill we can open our borders to the world.

Most "pro-illegal" people are not "pro-illegal", but rather feel that a comprimise of sorts can be achieved.
The most common definition of "Ethnocentric" is "The tendency to believe that one's own race or ethnic group is the most important and that some or all aspects of its culture are superior to those of other groups. ..."

The most common definition of "Racism" is "The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others"

So, again, I ask where in all these posts, has anybody claimed that Caucasians are superior to other races or ethnicities? In actual fact, since most illegal aliens living in the U.S. are Hispanic/Latino, we're only talking about ethnicity here, not race. Hispanic and Latino are not "races", they are ethnicities.

We don't resent hearing Spanish spoken around us because we feel English is a superior language; rather, we resent hearing it spoken around us because of what it so clearly represents....an invasion of illegal aliens from Mexico and Central America who are ignoring our laws and helping themselves to our country. They are changing the fabric of the U.S., and it is quite natural for Americans to resent this. I'm sure if Amercans flooded to Mexico, uninvited, and refused to respect the Mexican culture and Spanish language, the good citizens of Mexico would have something to say about that.

It's a sad double-standard for Americans. We are to respect and accomodate multiple cultures, and yet we are not allowed to expect that people would respect and accomodate our culture. And yes, America HAS a culture (or did, anyway). And we have a language. And for goodness sake, there is NOTHING wrong with that. Americans have just as much right to have a culture and language as any other country. And we have just as much right to want to preserve that language and culture.
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Old 11-20-2009, 05:51 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,080,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacktalon1 View Post
There was a time in this country when it was considered rude to speak a foreign language in public places. While there is no law against it, is simply a matter of respect for the native country and her citizens, as well as those who not only couldn't give a flying fig about what you are saying, but care more about the fact that in doing so, it is not only rude but deliberate and in many cases with malice.
The car alarm comparison would be fine it wasn't for this part. This paragraph indicates that it was not the volume, but rather the content. So it does IMPLY nosiness and not irritation due to the volume of the conversations.
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Old 11-20-2009, 05:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JA1961 View Post
The most common definition of "Ethnocentric" is "The tendency to believe that one's own race or ethnic group is the most important and that some or all aspects of its culture are superior to those of other groups. ..."

The most common definition of "Racism" is "The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others"

So, again, I ask where in all these posts, has anybody claimed that Caucasians are superior to other races or ethnicities? In actual fact, since most illegal aliens living in the U.S. are Hispanic/Latino, we're only talking about ethnicity here, not race. Hispanic and Latino are not "races", they are ethnicities.

We don't resent hearing Spanish spoken around us because we feel English is a superior language; rather, we resent hearing it spoken around us because of what it so clearly represents....an invasion of illegal aliens from Mexico and Central America who are ignoring our laws and helping themselves to our country. They are changing the fabric or the U.S., and it is quite natural for Americans to resent this. I'm sure if Amercans flooded to Mexico, uninvited, and refused to respect the Mexican culture and Spanish language, the good citizens of Mexico would have something to say about that.

It's a sad double-standard for Americans. We are to respect and accomodate multiple cultures, and yet we are not allowed to expect that people would respect and accomodate our culture. And yes, America HAS a culture (or did, anyway). And we have a language. And for goodness sake, there is NOTHING wrong with that. Americans have just as much right to have a culture and language as any other country. And we have just as much right to want to preserve that language and culture.
Many have stated that there is a "third world mentality" or that "Hispanics are generally criminal" on these forums.

American culture is comprised of various OTHER cultures. Nobody is saying that you can't live a typical American lifestyle, but rather you shouldn't impose your cultural views on others.

Culture is something that inherently is hard to define (as in, what is your culture). Is American culture not influenced by the Jews of Eastern Europe, Hispanics, African Americans, Italians, etc? This salad bowl that we have is really as American as you can get.

As for racism. I never stated that on this forum that people have said that caucasians are better...I simply stated that there is a large contingent of people who are attracted to the anti-illegal demographic. So, yes there is racism as well.
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Old 11-20-2009, 06:05 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,156,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Many have stated that there is a "third world mentality" or that "Hispanics are generally criminal" on these forums.

American culture is comprised of various OTHER cultures. Nobody is saying that you can't live a typical American lifestyle, but rather you shouldn't impose your cultural views on others.

Culture is something that inherently is hard to define (as in, what is your culture). Is American culture not influenced by the Jews of Eastern Europe, Hispanics, African Americans, Italians, etc? This salad bowl that we have is really as American as you can get.

As for racism. I never stated that on this forum that people have said that caucasians are better...I simply stated that there is a large contingent of people who are attracted to the anti-illegal demographic. So, yes there is racism as well.
We aren't a salad bowl, we are melting pot. The two concepts are entirely different. We have a basic culture and that is what you are in denial of regardless of any minority influence. The majority of Americans object to illegal immigration based on our laws and the negativity that illegal immigration brings. It isn't based on racism.
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Old 11-20-2009, 06:05 PM
 
26 posts, read 38,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Many have stated that there is a "third world mentality" or that "Hispanics are generally criminal" on these forums.

American culture is comprised of various OTHER cultures. Nobody is saying that you can't live a typical American lifestyle, but rather you shouldn't impose your cultural views on others.

Culture is something that inherently is hard to define (as in, what is your culture). Is American culture not influenced by the Jews of Eastern Europe, Hispanics, African Americans, Italians, etc? This salad bowl that we have is really as American as you can get.

As for racism. I never stated that on this forum that people have said that caucasians are better...I simply stated that there is a large contingent of people who are attracted to the anti-illegal demographic. So, yes there is racism as well.
There is truth to the "3rd-world mentality" comments. Obviously, people from 3rd world conditions south of our border who come to the U.S. are going to bring their experiences with them. As one who is very familiar with sanctuary cities populated by huge numbers of illegal aliens, I have witnessed behavior that is not even remotely common to Americans. This is disturbing because many of these behaviors are very undesirable and foreign to our standards. In other words, we find them offensive.

But still, being offended by certain behaviors exhibited by illegal aliens, does not make us racist.
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Old 11-20-2009, 06:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
We aren't a salad bowl, we are melting pot. The two concepts are entirely different. We have a basic culture and that is what you are in denial of regardless of any minority influence. The majority of Americans object to illegal immigration based on our laws and the negativity that illegal immigration brings. It isn't based on racism.
Look, I'm going by what most people in the sociology agree. The latest and newest metric. It's not denial that we have distinct communities. It's actually kind of disparaging towards communities that have a different history. Blacks have a different history and culture than the Yiddish population we have. Yet, both are uniquely American. So again, it's more of a salad bowl since we have distinct communities. The only common thread we have is the rise of the global consumer mass media culture. Technology and shopping.
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Old 11-20-2009, 06:11 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,156,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
The car alarm comparison would be fine it wasn't for this part. This paragraph indicates that it was not the volume, but rather the content. So it does IMPLY nosiness and not irritation due to the volume of the conversations.
Hearing an occasional foreign language being spoken is one thing but listening to one constantly everywhere you go is quite another. Why in the world would we give a crap about the content of anyone elses conversation when we don't even know them? I am not interested in anything that a white, black, hispanic or any other person is talking about if they are a stranger. It would mean nothing to me. You're not making any sense here.
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Old 11-20-2009, 06:12 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,080,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacktalon1 View Post
The more you say the more obvious it becomes that you remain clueless in terms of the content of my post.




You probably do read well, but that wasn't what I question. Unfortunately, you continue to prove that your comprehension skills are virtually non-existent. Enjoy your evening.
Not really...Instead of saying I'm clueless, why not refute the actual point? It demonstrates an inability to argue. See, when you write something on a public forum, you MAY be held accountable. I'm holding you accountable for YOUR words. Sorry if you don't like it, but maybe you should have thought of that prior. I will enjoy my evening.
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