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Old 11-24-2009, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,893 posts, read 12,275,751 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbartlebee View Post
Every one of these "undocumented immigrants", otherwise known as illegal aliens, who is employed in this country has committed a felony. And you associate with these felons?
They are my neighbors, it's kind of hard not to. In many cases they are more friendly and pleasant than my documented neighbors.
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,893 posts, read 12,275,751 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbartlebee View Post
We wouldn't need to deport most illegal aliens in order to get rid of them. Instead, we need to pass tough laws that would make it practically impossible for illegal aliens to get a job or receive taxpayer funded services. Also, Congress or the Supreme Court needs to do something about the current misinterpretation of the 14th Amendment so that we can put an end to 'anchor babies'. Without any incentives to stay in this country, illegal aliens would begin to self-deport in large numbers. The rest of them would be deported over time as they come to the attention of law enforcement for committing additional crimes or for driving/traffic violations.
I don't disagree with this assessment except for the deportation piece. Whether you want to admit it or not. Anyone who wants to be here or has any reason to be here can get in one way or another. If they have no reason to be here (aka E-Verify, etc. prevents them from being able to get employment) then they won't come or will find legal ways of doing so, which I have no problem with. I'm perfectly pro-legal immigration.
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,832,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
I'm not sure where you get your numbers, but they're debatable. The undocumented immigrants I know work 2 full time jobs and earn in the 50-60k/year range. Many of them are also home/business owners so on top of income taxes you also have property taxes as well as sales taxes for all the money they spend here...it adds up. The uneducated and unskilled statement is garbage too, just a poor generalization that doesn't accurately describe the country's undocumented population. I'm not saying we need to sustain every undocumented immigrant, just that there are cheaper and more effective solutions than deportation...especially when they'll just hop back in a week later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
This isn't the case for the majority of undocumented immigrants from Mexico I have come into contact with, it's a popular generalization more than anything. Alot of the Mexicans I know doing janitorial work and working in restaurants are actually trained professionals in Mexico. I know people who have college educations in Mexico, who are accountants, pharmacists, teachers, lawyers, etc. Their education doesn't transfer here and they aren't fluent in English so people mistake them for being uneducated but it simply isn't true, these are intelligent people. It just makes more sense for them to work for $8-12/hr in Burger King here than making $2/hr as a high school teacher (which is commonly regarded as a higher paying job in Mexico).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
Yeah, that's not how I feel at all about it. I don't know where people get the idea that their home country doesn't want them, that's a bunch of crap.
Quote:
Pew’s data also reveals that illegal aliens are far less educated than the U.S. population as a whole. Pew states that illegal alien adults between the ages of 25 and 64 are disproportionately uneducated and unskilled when compared to U.S. citizens or legal immigrants. Nearly 29% of illegal aliens in the United States possess “less than a ninth-grade education; an additional 18% have some high school education but have not completed high school.” This compares to 2% and 6% of U.S. citizens in that age range who, respectively, have not reached the ninth-grade level or the equivalent of a high school degree. (Id. at 10). Younger illegal aliens (ages 18 to 24) do not fare much better: 40% of illegal aliens in that age group have not completed high school, compared to 15% of legal immigrants and 8% of U.S. citizens in the same age group (Id. at 11-12).

Pew Hispanic states that the fact that illegal aliens tend to be unskilled and uneducated reveals why illegal alien adults are also disproportionately represented among the poor.
American Renaissance News: Pew Study Shows Illegal Aliens Uneducated and a Burden to America's Health Care System (http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2009/04/pew_study_shows.php - broken link)

[Editor’s Note: The Pew Hispanic Center’s report entitled “A Portrait of Unauthorized Immigrants in the United States” can be read or downloaded as
a PDF file here.]

Quote:
It turns out that enough illegal immigrants have either fled the U.S. or been deported that officials in the Mexican state of Sonora, which shares an extensive border with Arizona, have complained that too many of their fellow countrymen have returned. They miss the remittances sent from the U.S. as well as smaller class sizes in local schools.

One baffled Mexican legislator, Leticia Amparano Gamez, asked in Spanish “how can they pass a law like this?” She went on to explain that Mexico is not prepared for the “tremendous problems” it will face as more and more Mexicans working in Arizona and sending money to their families return to hometowns in Sonora without jobs. Another member of the Mexican delegation, Representative Florencio Diaz Armenta, asked “what do we do with the repatriated?”
Mexico Complains Of Too Many Repatriated Mexicans | Judicial Watch

Quote:
MEXICO CITY, Jan. 5 - The Mexican government drew fire from American advocates of tighter borders on Wednesday for publishing a pamphlet [below] that instructs migrants how to safely enter the United States illegally and live there without being detected.
Mexican Guide for Illegal Migrants to US (http://cryptome.quintessenz.at/mirror/mx/mx-migrants.htm#below - broken link)
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Old 11-24-2009, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,669,573 times
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Quote:
"Mexico is not prepared for this, for the tremendous problems" it will face as more and more Mexicans working in Arizona and sending money to their families return to hometowns in Sonora without jobs, she said.

"We are one family, socially and economically," she said of the people of Sonora and Arizona.

Sonoran officials slam sanctions law in Tucson visit

I do not claim a bunch of illegal alien ingrate losers as part of my family.

Needless to say: close/lock our southern border even tighter to keep those fired workers (if Mexican nationals) from returning to the USA.
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Old 11-24-2009, 08:02 PM
 
4,126 posts, read 4,335,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
I don't disagree with this assessment except for the deportation piece. Whether you want to admit it or not. Anyone who wants to be here or has any reason to be here can get in one way or another. If they have no reason to be here (aka E-Verify, etc. prevents them from being able to get employment) then they won't come or will find legal ways of doing so, which I have no problem with. I'm perfectly pro-legal immigration.

Just exactly how many undocumented aliens do you suppose are in Minneapolis Minnesota?

You do realize that there are more illegal aliens in LA county alone (1.5 million more actually) than there are people, legal and illegal in Minneapolis? Does that give you a somewhat better perspective?

Illegals in CA cost the state over $10 Billion every year. That's about $1300 per year for every legal man, woman , and child.
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Old 11-24-2009, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,911,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
Well, since they are illegal and undocumented it makes paying taxes and doing alot of the things a legal resident does much more difficult. They would need to be properly documented to allow them to pay their taxes.
Sort of like one would need to actually have an account in a bank before making a withdrawal so that it wouldnt be considered robbery.
The fact that they are here by choice against the law is the nature of their problems. Not that there are laws.
You are correct. They should have entered legally rather than by stealth and then they would not be criminals.
They made a choice to be criminal and further compound their choice by breaking more laws still.
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,893 posts, read 12,275,751 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_Ryder View Post
Just exactly how many undocumented aliens do you suppose are in Minneapolis Minnesota?

You do realize that there are more illegal aliens in LA county alone (1.5 million more actually) than there are people, legal and illegal in Minneapolis? Does that give you a somewhat better perspective?

Illegals in CA cost the state over $10 Billion every year. That's about $1300 per year for every legal man, woman , and child.
I'm aware of the difference in numbers between the two states, thanks.
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,893 posts, read 12,275,751 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
American Renaissance News: Pew Study Shows Illegal Aliens Uneducated and a Burden to America's Health Care System (http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2009/04/pew_study_shows.php - broken link)

[Editor’s Note: The Pew Hispanic Center’s report entitled “A Portrait of Unauthorized Immigrants in the United States” can be read or downloaded as
a PDF file here.]


Mexico Complains Of Too Many Repatriated Mexicans | Judicial Watch


Mexican Guide for Illegal Migrants to US (http://cryptome.quintessenz.at/mirror/mx/mx-migrants.htm#below - broken link)
It's hard to take those reports seriously, I could find similar reports that suggest that many are educated and that the education just doesn't translate here because of licenses, companies and organizations here don't consider their education as coming from an accredited institution, the language barrier, etc. I could also find reports, articles and data which supports that the benefits provided by the undocumented population outweigh the burden it causes. We all know the pros and cons to their existence, the real issue is the undocumented piece and proper regulation, documentation and enforcement going forward.
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:24 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,819,682 times
Reputation: 22174
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Yet another step in the right direction. One must wonder though. If illegals only do jobs legals won't, then who is filling those positions?
I have a feeling with the economy down they aren't filling these positions with anyone. Illegals were behind a whole lot of the recent housing bubble. They were the cheap dry wall installers, and roofers and so on who built the houses at very low labor costs so the developers could get rich fast.

Also it was the no social security loans and other subprime loans that allowed many of these expensive but cheaply built homes to be sold and very often to illegals or other immigrants who had no credit, no solid income.

Factories also were hiring a lot of illegals but they've realized that instead of paying them $6 an hour they can move offshore and profit better.

Farm work might still be there but it was a wrong assumption to think that all illegals were here to do farm work and many farm workers have green cards and H2 visas because agricultrual visas aren't limited.
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,893 posts, read 12,275,751 times
Reputation: 2531
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Sort of like one would need to actually have an account in a bank before making a withdrawal so that it wouldnt be considered robbery.
The fact that they are here by choice against the law is the nature of their problems. Not that there are laws.
You are correct. They should have entered legally rather than by stealth and then they would not be criminals.
They made a choice to be criminal and further compound their choice by breaking more laws still.
I don't disagree with you, and yes, they could be labeled as criminals depending on the definition of the word "criminal" you are using. If you are using the definition of criminal to be mean "someone who has committed a crime," it is accurate. Another meaning of the word criminal is "someone who has been convicted and found guilty of a crime." Since these people we are speaking of have not been convicted and found guilty of a crime this definition of the word criminal is not appropriate in this situation.
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