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Old 11-25-2009, 07:27 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
They are my neighbors, it's kind of hard not to. In many cases they are more friendly and pleasant than my documented neighbors.
Yeah some of my embezzling and shoplifting neighbors are like that too. Some of the friendliest people cheat on taxes, cheat on their wives. Kind of like those friendly Nigerians who email you too.
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Old 11-25-2009, 07:33 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,252,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I have a feeling with the economy down they aren't filling these positions with anyone. Illegals were behind a whole lot of the recent housing bubble. They were the cheap dry wall installers, and roofers and so on who built the houses at very low labor costs so the developers could get rich fast.
I'd be more inclined to place the responsibility on the rich construction company owners who made the decision to hire the cheap labor and use the crappy materials, not on the poor immigrants who were given the opportunity to make some money. You can't really blame them for accepting the opportunity to work.

Quote:
Also it was the no social security loans and other subprime loans that allowed many of these expensive but cheaply built homes to be sold and very often to illegals or other immigrants who had no credit, no solid income.
Yeah, well in many cases they were duped by misleading predatory mortgage people. Yes, anybody who agreed to the terms should have read the contract more carefully though so you have to place a certain level of blame on both sides. I'm not sure pinning the issue on the immigrants who had subprime mortgages though...there were PLENTY of American citizens who had them too.
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Old 11-25-2009, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,252,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Yeah some of my embezzling and shoplifting neighbors are like that too. Some of the friendliest people cheat on taxes, cheat on their wives. Kind of like those friendly Nigerians who email you too.
Ok then, since everybody's a scumbag maybe I should just hide in my house and not make any interaction with anybody.
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Old 11-25-2009, 07:51 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
Ok then, since everybody's a scumbag maybe I should just hide in my house and not make any interaction with anybody.
My point was that friendly and smiley really doesn't matter, there are immigration laws in place for good reasons. Some immigration is good but immigration should be about getting people who want to become part of the American people here, not just a get rich quick scheme. Many people want to come so immigration needs to be balanced and fair so there needs to be laws.

All other countries I can think of have immigration laws and they don't have nearly the high number of legal immigrants we have here.
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,252,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
My point was that friendly and smiley really doesn't matter, there are immigration laws in place for good reasons. Some immigration is good but immigration should be about getting people who want to become part of the American people here, not just a get rich quick scheme. Many people want to come so immigration needs to be balanced and fair so there needs to be laws.

All other countries I can think of have immigration laws and they don't have nearly the high number of legal immigrants we have here.
That doesn't mean I shouldn't have the right to chat with my neighbors. I shouldn't be obligated to worry about whether or not my neighbor cheats on their taxes or if their immigration documents are in order, that's their deal. I pay taxes so that law enforcement and government agencies exist to handle those issues. However, since they live on my block I see them every day and there is nothing wrong with chatting with them once in a while, that's all I'm saying.
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:28 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
That doesn't mean I shouldn't have the right to chat with my neighbors. I shouldn't be obligated to worry about whether or not my neighbor cheats on their taxes or if their immigration documents are in order, that's their deal. I pay taxes so that law enforcement and government agencies exist to handle those issues. However, since they live on my block I see them every day and there is nothing wrong with chatting with them once in a while, that's all I'm saying.
I have a lot of illegal neighbors too and I sometimes talk to them. I don't think that is breaking the law.

I don't think it's that they are all terrible people but they believe they should not have to follow the laws they don't want to follow. They don't see any reason they should have to wait in line behind other would be immigrants, they don't believe immigration should be fair and balanced, that someone in another country has an equal chance to come here.

I even know an illegal who doesn't really want an amnesty or else wants it carefully limited because he's here illegally but says that it could be bad because the Central Americans will accept lower wages than do Mexicans. He realizes that a Guatemalan or Honduran would work for lower pay than he does and that if amnesty is too easy, they will be pouring over the border to get in on it and some of them would be willing to work and his job isn't too bad.
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Old 11-25-2009, 09:08 AM
 
4,126 posts, read 4,329,212 times
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Originally Posted by Slig View Post
I'm aware of the difference in numbers between the two states, thanks.

I assumed you were. You have made many statements based only on your personal experience. That's the error in your argument. You've been lucky.

Now, having lived in Minnesota myself for about a year, many times I heard a saying: "Sure it's cold but it keeps out the riff-raff." I found that to be for the most part true. From my observation, it seems to hold true for illegals as well.
I think most who've experienced the brutal winters would agree that it's not a place that would attract the lazy and shiftless types that tend to gravitate toward warmer climates. Let's face it, the illegals you find in a warm place are not the same you encounter in MN. There's also the fact that MN doesn't have any large cities. Illegals are attracted to larger cities for too many reasons to go into. I don't mean to be offensive but though Minneapolis is the biggest in MN, it's not a large city. If you take a look, you'd see the folks who seem to take issue with illegals most tend to be in the Southwest, Texas, Southern Pacific Coast, and Florida, i.e. the same states where it really is a huge problem.

In short, while most folks in the warmer climes are good people, the more pleasant climate also attracts the riff-raff both legal and illegal. Life is easier down here and that's exactly what lazy people seek. Though there are a few things I don't like about Minnesota's climate and geography, as a rule the population is anything but shiftless and lazy. Minnesota is a great place with amazing people. If it had an Ocean for at least one border, I'd still be there. But as nice as it is, it's hardly representative of the US in general.
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Old 11-25-2009, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_Ryder View Post
I assumed you were. You have made many statements based only on your personal experience. That's the error in your argument. You've been lucky.

Now, having lived in Minnesota myself for about a year, many times I heard a saying: "Sure it's cold but it keeps out the riff-raff." I found that to be for the most part true. From my observation, it seems to hold true for illegals as well.
I think most who've experienced the brutal winters would agree that it's not a place that would attract the lazy and shiftless types that tend to gravitate toward warmer climates. Let's face it, the illegals you find in a warm place are not the same you encounter in MN. There's also the fact that MN doesn't have any large cities. Illegals are attracted to larger cities for too many reasons to go into. I don't mean to be offensive but though Minneapolis is the biggest in MN, it's not a large city. If you take a look, you'd see the folks who seem to take issue with illegals most tend to be in the Southwest, Texas, Southern Pacific Coast, and Florida, i.e. the same states where it really is a huge problem.

In short, while most folks in the warmer climes are good people, the more pleasant climate also attracts the riff-raff both legal and illegal. Life is easier down here and that's exactly what lazy people seek. Though there are a few things I don't like about Minnesota's climate and geography, as a rule the population is anything but shiftless and lazy. Minnesota is a great place with amazing people. If it had an Ocean for at least one border, I'd still be there. But as nice as it is, it's hardly representative of the US in general.
All good points there. Although; there is a fair amount of riff-raff in the Upper Midwest as well..........just that they are usually Anglos, both White and Black.
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Old 11-25-2009, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
It's hard to take those reports seriously, I could find similar reports that suggest that many are educated and that the education just doesn't translate here because of licenses, companies and organizations here don't consider their education as coming from an accredited institution, the language barrier, etc. I could also find reports, articles and data which supports that the benefits provided by the undocumented population outweigh the burden it causes. We all know the pros and cons to their existence, the real issue is the undocumented piece and proper regulation, documentation and enforcement going forward.
But, Pew Hispanic is the pro-illegal bible. The others can be easily verified, if you so desire. Quite frankly, I donít believe you would consider any report which contradicts your beliefs to be credible, because it doesnít support your agenda.

For some reason, you MUST believe they are educated and assets to this country, when nothing could be further from the truth. Understandably, anyone with a conscience will experience internal conflict when supporting something inherently wrong. Thus, it is necessary to ďbelieveĒ that right is wrong, and wrong is right. In any case, they are ALL criminals. A person cannot exist in this country illegally without violating our laws. Iím sorry, but thatís a fact.

The real issue is not their lack of documentation. The real issue is their flagrant violation of our laws. We donít need immigration reform; we only need enforcement.
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Old 11-25-2009, 09:33 AM
 
4,126 posts, read 4,329,212 times
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Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
All good points there. Although; there is a fair amount of riff-raff in the Upper Midwest as well..........just that they are usually Anglos, both White and Black.
Granted. I have to admit my views are also greatly influenced by personal experience. I have but for a brief time always lived in major Southern or Pacific Coast cities. My only real experience with the upper Midwest was MN. Comparatively speaking, the riff-raff ratio is quite different. I heard while living in MN that everyone in Wisconsin is riff-raff so you may be right.
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