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Old 12-02-2009, 01:58 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,410,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
Correction: My culture is American, 100% born and raised. I just simply choose not to be a prick about other people's cultures. As far as I'm concerned people can perpetuate whatever culture they want as long as it is within the law.
I was also born here but I was raised on both sides. So, I consider myself to be bi-cultural. I am very assimilated into the American culture and that which I choose to still be part of my other culture, does not violate any laws. Thanks for your respect Sling.
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Old 12-02-2009, 02:40 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,410,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I hate to break it to you, but as soon as the African slaves arrived in this country, they were stripped of their culture, including language and names. Thus, the “culture” of the descendants of slaves, is “Americanized.” Do you remember Kunta Kinte from the mini series “Roots?” If so, you will remember he was forced to relinquish his African name for the American name Toby. My maiden name is French. To my knowledge, I do not have French ancestors. Rather, it is my understanding a family of slave owners on my father’s side were French. Likewise, on my mother’s side some have an English surname, Bickerstaff.

Even the traditional “black” diet is the result of American influence. For example, we enjoy the same Thanksgiving meals as white America -- turkey, dressing, cranberry sauce, sweet potatoes, etc. However, during slavery, blacks were given the scraps and the “undesirable” portions of animals -- pig intestines, feet, ribs, etc. They are now considered “soul” food. Thus, in addition to the traditional “Anglo” Thanksgiving menu, chitterlings aka chitlins (pig intestines) are also a “black” tradition. However, it is a tradition established in this country; not one brought here by African slaves.
I'm very familiar with Roots. If you remember Kissey was told to never forget who she was and where she came from. She even knew some dialect words her father taught her.

I think for once we may agree to something Benicar. I completely agree that the African-American culture is an American culture. I also agree that it was very much influenced by the Anglo culture, due to the enslavement, etc. I do not think that most African Americans would give up their identity as such to self-identify as WASP. I dont know if I'm explaining this well so let me try again.

The tradition of the "jumping the broom" was one that was instilled by slave masters in America onto the African American culture. However, it was not one that was part of the Anglo culture. Some blacks still continue the tradition and some have refused it due to its origins. Whether good or bad, we cannot say that it is part of the Anglo culture. It is an African American culture tradition, one that is part of the overall American culture.

There are also some differences in the "black" diet, as you have mentioned. The art, music and many other things that make African American culture unique and different from the Anglo culture, even if it was influenced by it.

As I said before, African Americans are definately an American culture and a product of the US. Otherwise, you would be speaking Ga or twi right now or making pounded yam to eat.

Side note: Even if you dont think so, there are also many similarities between African Americans and Africans. You would be suprised how African Americans are treated in Africa. They would love you.

Besides, the things you mentioned on your other post such as wearing proper clothing to a job interview and speaking proper are norms in most countries. I dont know of anyone that would get hired for speaking pidgin English unless it was a labor intense job.

Last edited by zacatecana; 12-02-2009 at 02:43 AM.. Reason: add
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Old 12-02-2009, 03:18 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,410,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I agree...that "anglo" stuff is just a small part of the American culture....the part that includes the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, the 'Four Freedoms'.(Freedom from fear; Freedom of Speech; Freedom from want; Freedom of Worship)...Also the 'Right to remain silent' when arrested; the presumption of innocence until proven guilty; the right to a trial by a jury of one's peers...all that "stuffy" part of the culture. Those Anglos are pretty stuffy...(I know, since a couple of generations ago, it wouldn't have been MY culture, either...my family had to 'learn' it).

The IMPORTANT stuff, though? The 'exciting' parts of culture?...the art, the music, the cuisine? Rap music? Hip hop? Skateboarding? That's not 'anglo' at all....(everyone KNOWS anglos can't COOK, for heaven sake....and who ever heard of 'anglo music'?...'anglo dancing'? Forget it !!).

So I agree...our culture is PART anglo, and part other....and the anglo part isn't important, until things go wrong...and then I'll be thanking GOD for the basic laws those stuffy old dead "anglos" wrote, so the REST of us can 'be ourselves'. I'm sure glad MY ancestors weren't involved in writing the rules we now live by....(although we had a FEW good musicians).


If I want to live in a 'colorful' society, I can do that anywhere. When the time comes that I want a decent system, though, I'm afraid I'm going to go with what the "anglos" came up with. They can't dance, you say? Honestly, I don't care. I like their notions of liberty. Dancing I can find on my own.
Interesting, I agreed with most of what you said until I read the following post.

There are a lot of good things about the American culture. When I ask some of my family members what it is that they like about the American culture, I get different answers from everyone. One of my uncles said he likes the fact that he does not have to pay the police to protect him. The police understands it is part of his job to protect the public even though there is some level of discrimination.

On the other hand my father likes "punctuality". I have to say, this is one that I struggle with because I like the relaxed atmosphere of latin America but I still abide by the culture. Otherwise, I would not survive here.

However, I completely disagree with you on this one. A family's support cannot be replaced by the authoritie's support. I dont see the correlation here. I know I will be labeled an anti-american for this but I know I speak the truth. Most foreign immigrant families come from countries where the family unit needs to be preserved. There is a lower divorce rate, a higher number of stay home mothers, higher percentage of faith believers that reinforce those good values of keeping the family together.

In the US, we have the highest divorce rate, many many single family households, many many latchkey kids, a decline in religious faith. More over, the culture already emphasizes materialism and the American thing is to buy the latest high tech toys to these latchkey kids to placate them. The American family unit is in big time trouble and I dont see the culture getting any better, any time soon which terribly worries me.

BTW, which FEW GOOD musicians did you have in mind? I wonder if most people know that the origins of grass roots music are from Africa. The bango is an instrument taken from the African culture.

Museum for African Art: Museum Store

http://www.unitybluegrass.com/afro_bg.htm

When I think of original American cusine, I think of the hamburger. I think everything else was borrowed from other cultures and their immigrants.

But I agree, America is a multi-cultural nation. That in itself is very unique and special!

Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
There's a lot of good points here. However, I have a few arguments. One is with your 7th point, "Having the family as the core" (etc)...Having the family as one's main 'focus' is very much part of the culture of most of the Third World; in fact, that is a large part of the problem. Many of these folks have never experienced a society in which the laws, or the social order, were anything more than a cruel joke. In such conditions, one's family becomes not only his 'main support', oftentimes it's his ONLY reliable support. In a land where the laws are stacked against the poor, where the police are corrupt, and where civil rights are a matter of one's income, or race, or religion, the only 'backup' one has is his 'in-group'...family, friends, and aquaintances. Everyone else is a potential enemy, or a rival, and if you don't lok out for your own group, nobody else will. It becomes strictly a matter of "us against the world"...(even if 'the world' means the rest of society, including its laws and standards).

This 'tribal' mindset flies directly in the face of what is required to live and prosper in a free, democratic, and multiracial society. Here, we HAVE to 'trust strangers', and family ties, and loyalties MUST take second place to the rule of law. If that is not the case, the system breaks down.

Illegal immigrants usually have no problem at all regarding 'family' as important. Their problem is realizing that 'taking care of family' does not give one the right to ignore the law of the land. That's a tough point to internalize, when you're from a place where "laws" are basically a joke.

Last edited by zacatecana; 12-02-2009 at 03:50 AM.. Reason: add
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Old 12-02-2009, 05:51 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
That is why I said "the Americas" with an "s" at the end for plural. In Mexico, we dont call our culture "White Spanish Catholic", etc. We call it "Mexican culture" and we know that it was influenced by some of our indigenous cultures while Spanish culture remained the dominant for religion, currency, government, constitution, etc.

That is how I envision American culture. A mix of ethnic cultures, with a dominant culture from Europe. I still respect those that want to label themselves WASP. I see it as an ethnicity, an ethnicity that influenced American culture.



Nothing to ponder about. There is a big difference between an ethnicity and a nationality. Furthermore, we have discussed this, a last name means nothing.
Distilled down to the essence: both Hispanic and WASP cultures are White European based ones. Yet why do a bunch of especially Mestizo Latinos wish to cling to their Hispanic one since WASP culture is much more powerful?

The cold hard facts are that Mexico is not being invaded by us Americans (although that may change very soon as that nation continues to implode) whereas the vast majority of illegal aliens are 'brown' peasants from Latin America that the (mostly) White elite there holds in contempt.
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Old 12-02-2009, 06:58 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
It's always been a 'Catch-22' conundrum. 'Tribal mentality' in any immigrant group is a reaction to the perception that they're not accepted by the majority; while oftentimes, the reason they're not accepted by the majority is that they're seen as having a 'tribal mentality'. As acceptance increases, tribal mentality gives way to assimilation. As tribal mentality decreases, acceptance follows.

When part of one's concept of his 'Tribal mentality' requires that he defend illegal immigration (because it's occurring among members of his 'tribe'), over the law of the land, then assimilation is slowed, and lines of mistrust between 'tribe' and the general population persist. 'Tribal loyalty' in such a case is antithetical to assimilation. It forces one to choose 'tribe' over law; in a multiethnic society, this is an unsustainable situation.
I agree with most everything you said except that those with a tribal mentality also have that same mentality in their own countries. They bring it with them.
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Old 12-02-2009, 07:02 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
I understand what assimilation means, my whole point is that the fact that you are so bent up on cultures different than yours assimilating to your culture contradicts your other claims of being open and accepting to other cultures....if you are so insistent that they assimilate you clearly aren't opening and accepting to them, now are you.
Did you not read what I quoted from wikepedia and dictionary.com as to what assimilation means? It appears that you oppose assimilation while that is what this country has always been about aka "the melting pot". That in no way implies an intolerance of other cultures but do carry on with your BS.
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Old 12-02-2009, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,252,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Did you not read what I quoted from wikepedia and dictionary.com as to what assimilation means? It appears that you oppose assimilation while that is what this country has always been about aka "the melting pot". That in no way implies an intolerance of other cultures but do carry on with your BS.
My whole point of this discussion, if you're open to other cultures as you claim you are, then please be more open-minded about people speaking in non-English langauges in public. I believe that would fall under acceptance to non-Anglo cultures.
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Old 12-02-2009, 10:01 AM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,088,829 times
Reputation: 1814
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
Interesting, I agreed with most of what you said until I read the following post.

There are a lot of good things about the American culture. When I ask some of my family members what it is that they like about the American culture, I get different answers from everyone. One of my uncles said he likes the fact that he does not have to pay the police to protect him. The police understands it is part of his job to protect the public even though there is some level of discrimination.

On the other hand my father likes "punctuality". I have to say, this is one that I struggle with because I like the relaxed atmosphere of latin America but I still abide by the culture. Otherwise, I would not survive here.

However, I completely disagree with you on this one. A family's support cannot be replaced by the authoritie's support. I dont see the correlation here. I know I will be labeled an anti-american for this but I know I speak the truth. Most foreign immigrant families come from countries where the family unit needs to be preserved. There is a lower divorce rate, a higher number of stay home mothers, higher percentage of faith believers that reinforce those good values of keeping the family together.

In the US, we have the highest divorce rate, many many single family households, many many latchkey kids, a decline in religious faith. More over, the culture already emphasizes materialism and the American thing is to buy the latest high tech toys to these latchkey kids to placate them. The American family unit is in big time trouble and I dont see the culture getting any better, any time soon which terribly worries me.

BTW, which FEW GOOD musicians did you have in mind? I wonder if most people know that the origins of grass roots music are from Africa. The bango is an instrument taken from the African culture.

Museum for African Art: Museum Store

African American Links

When I think of original American cusine, I think of the hamburger. I think everything else was borrowed from other cultures and their immigrants.

But I agree, America is a multi-cultural nation. That in itself is very unique and special!
Many very good points in here. But just for the record, hamburger isnt original American cuisine either --- Hamburg, Germany. And had been eaten by other cultures around the world for centuries. lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
As I said before, African Americans are definately an American culture and a product of the US. Otherwise, you would be speaking Ga or twi right now or making pounded yam to eat.

Side note: Even if you dont think so, there are also many similarities between African Americans and Africans. You would be suprised how African Americans are treated in Africa. They would love you.

Besides, the things you mentioned on your other post such as wearing proper clothing to a job interview and speaking proper are norms in most countries. I dont know of anyone that would get hired for speaking pidgin English unless it was a labor intense job.
I think the similarities between American Blacks and Africans in this context are being a bit overstated. Blacks have no deliberate cultural connection with Africans. African Americans dont even really know which of the African cultures they would be connected to. Too, Africans really arent very fond of African Americans. They often resent American blacks for their western assimilation, and beyond entertainers, African Americans are scantily favored in most African countries.
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Old 12-02-2009, 02:00 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,077,957 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I hate to break it to you, but as soon as the African slaves arrived in this country, they were stripped of their culture, including language and names. Thus, the “culture” of the descendants of slaves, is “Americanized.” Do you remember Kunta Kinte from the mini series “Roots?” If so, you will remember he was forced to relinquish his African name for the American name Toby. My maiden name is French. To my knowledge, I do not have French ancestors. Rather, it is my understanding a family of slave owners on my father’s side were French. Likewise, on my mother’s side some have an English surname, Bickerstaff.

Even the traditional “black” diet is the result of American influence. For example, we enjoy the same Thanksgiving meals as white America -- turkey, dressing, cranberry sauce, sweet potatoes, etc. However, during slavery, blacks were given the scraps and the “undesirable” portions of animals -- pig intestines, feet, ribs, etc. They are now considered “soul” food. Thus, in addition to the traditional “Anglo” Thanksgiving menu, chitterlings aka chitlins (pig intestines) are also a “black” tradition. However, it is a tradition established in this country; not one brought here by African slaves.
The diet is also VERY African. In Africa, we do pig feet. We also do eat "chitterlings" as well. We also eat gumbo, but with a slight variation.

The influence obviously is not very strong, but it is VERY visible.

Which is my point, that this notion of "Anglo" homogeny is a part of the mythology of America...not a part of the reality of the nation.
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Old 12-02-2009, 03:36 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,070,242 times
Reputation: 2244
they dont get it. thats why i bowed out of this.

american culture is NOT anglo. its southern. its northeastern. its yankee. its waspy. its soutwestern. its latino. its black. its white. its a lot of things.

but i think they like mr herreras white world better.

i dont.

good luck with these posters. they remind of the stupid [former]poster jdubs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
What is "American" culture? Still haven't answered it. The examples I gave were that there are MANY definitions of French culture. Same with America, IMO...what about you, what defines an American?
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