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Old 12-04-2009, 08:16 PM
 
Location: California
706 posts, read 798,607 times
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[quote=hardndapaint;11894452]Nobody said the culture was "non existant". They're saying its a composite of many, and doesn't have to conform to that of one ethnic group.

It's a pretty simple concept.

Even the most prized ideals of America are borrowed from other cultures that came before it.[/quote]

you say " borrowed" , I say " refined"

BTW, do you consider "American Culture" a positive, or a negative ?
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Old 12-04-2009, 08:48 PM
 
18 posts, read 9,980 times
Reputation: 13
[quote=borderlord;11894659]
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardndapaint View Post
Nobody said the culture was "non existant". They're saying its a composite of many, and doesn't have to conform to that of one ethnic group.

It's a pretty simple concept.

Even the most prized ideals of America are borrowed from other cultures that came before it.[/quote]

you say " borrowed" , I say " refined"

BTW, do you consider "American Culture" a positive, or a negative ?
I'd say refined too..as in American culture finally refining ITSELF in recent decades.
Instead of trying to get some kind of superiority out of it, pay dues where they belong. Democracy was invented by the Greeks, not Anglos who were more into the imperialist monarchy thing for a long time. We, and other countries have adopted those ideals, and contributed to them.

But America didn't start really living up to those ideals until recent times.

I see you're trying to "get" me.

I consider American culture a positive. But we have a very different perspective and idea of what American culture is. I recognize it as the sum of many, a relatively new culture that is dynamic, and everchanging.

What I consider a negative is chauvinism, and those who are self-righteous and think they are the only "true" Americans, and the ones who care about this country. And anyone who disagrees with them is automatically against it, and anti-American.
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:22 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,195,062 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardndapaint View Post
Nobody said the culture was "non existant". They're saying its a composite of many, and doesn't have to conform to that of one ethnic group.

It's a pretty simple concept.

Even the most prized ideals of America are borrowed from other cultures that came before it.
But the BASICS and dominant identity still remains the same and that is what you and some others are in denial about.
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:41 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,655,184 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardndapaint View Post
Nobody said the culture was "non existant". They're saying its a composite of many, and doesn't have to conform to that of one ethnic group.

It's a pretty simple concept.

Even the most prized ideals of America are borrowed from other cultures that came before it.
Interesting points.....but there's probably no concepts in any society anywhere that weren't borrowed from somewhere else. There isn't a single human being alive whose ancestors, at some point in history, didn't abuse someone else's ancestors. And there's probably nobody on earth who lives ANYWHERE, on land that didn't formerly belong to someone else, and was very likely taken from them by force. There is no culture anywhere that has a 'clean record'...and no culture anywhere wose members regard OTHER cultures as 'just as good as us'. EVERY culture thinks its members live in 'the right way', and that the actions of OTHER cultures are 'odd', or 'strange'.

ALL existing nations fit this description; all ethnic groups, tribes, races, and religions as well. We understand this, and we realize other places have their failings and their 'skeletons', and we simply take this into account, and that's that....with ONE exception...the United States. This nation...and ONLY this nation...is expected to 'deliver' on a sort of promise that was made to the entire human race...."come here, and be free and prosperous, and live in peace...and it doesn't matter who you are, we promise this to you". Basically, that's what the US represents....and when it doesn't achieve 100% success, we get mad.

American society is an 'experiment'. Nobody had ever constructed a society like it, and to this day, nobody knows how it will come out. Is it possible to take in a virtually limitless number of people, of every culture and 'mindset' and lifestyle known to mankind, put them together here, put virtually NO restrictions on them, ask virtually NOTHING of them in return, ask no allegiance or loyalty, and guarantee total 'success', harmony, and happiness to ALL of them? In my opinion, no, it's not. It doesn't work overseas; there's no reason to think it should work here. NO organization can exist without some sort of a central 'theme', to which its members agree to adhere. It's impossible.

Maybe we just CAN'T have unlimited multiculturalism, and unlimited freedom, and still have a coherent society; maybe no society can. Maybe people just aren't designed that way. And maybe in the end, we'll have to face the fact that we simply CAN'T please each and every group..maybe we'll find, in the end, that it's possible to please only 85 or 90% of people, and the rest are just going to be angry and resentful. Honestly, I don't know. But I do know this...the only society that we DEMAND must live up to this ideal, is that of the USA....Why? Because that's what we SAID we'd do, in the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. No other nation do we hold to this standard. In that sense, we're unique. And when you're unique, it gets a little hard to truly determine whether you're doing "good" or "bad"....

Just wanted to make that observation.
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:50 PM
 
18 posts, read 9,980 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Interesting points.....but there's probably no concepts in any society anywhere that weren't borrowed from somewhere else. There isn't a single human being alive whose ancestors, at some point in history, didn't abuse someone else's ancestors. And there's probably nobody on earth who lives ANTWHERE, on land that didn't formerly belong to someone else, and was very likely taken from them by force.

ALL nations fit this description; all ethnic groups, tribes, races, and religions as well. We understand this, and we realize other places have their failings and their 'skeletons', and we simply take this into account, and that's that....with ONE exception...the United States. This nation...and ONLY this nation...is expected to 'deliver' on a sort of promise that was made to the entire human race...."come here, and be free and prosperous, and live in peace...and it doesn't matter who you are, we promise this to you". Basically, that's what the US represents....and when it doesn't achieve 100% success, we get mad.

American society is an 'experiment'. Nobody had ever constructed a society like it, and to this day, nobody knows how it will come out. Is it possible to take in a virtually limitless number of people, of every culture and 'mindset' and lifestyle known to mankind, put them together here, put virtually NO restrictions on them, ask virtually NOTHING of them in return, and guarantee total 'success', harmony, and happiness to ALL of them? In my opinion, no, it's not.

Maybe we just CAN'T have unlimited multiculturalism, and unlimited freedom, and still have a coherent society; maybe no society can. Maybe people just aren't designed that way. And maybe in the end, we'll have to face the fact that we simply CAN'T please each and every group..maybe we'll find, in the end, that it's possible to please only 85 or 90% of people, and the rest are just going to be angry and resentful. Honestly, I don't know. But I do know this...the only society that we DEMAND must live up to this ideal, is that of the USA....Why? Because that's what we SAID we'd do, in the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. No other nation do we hold to this standard. In that sense, we're unique. And when you're unique, it gets a little hard to truly determine whether you're doing "good" or "bad"....

Just wanted to make that observation.

You're a real idealist, huh?
There are nearly homogenous countries that don't get along. It isn't culture or race that holds a country together. Or the necessity of having a dominant race.
What holds a country together is financial stability.

Take financial stability away from ANY country and it will fall apart.

You sound bitter that the ethnics are "taking over" or something. Like you're losing a dominant position, and you're saddened by it. You don't have much faith in this country if you think it's too intolerant to handle diversity. I'd like to think more of the American people, which for me might include more than it does for others on here.

Countries that extolled the virtues of having one culture, one religion and one race have failed horribly. Nazi Germany for example.
Not to say what your'e saying necessarily describes Nazi Germany, but your thinking is the groundwork that leads to that kind of thing.
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Old 12-05-2009, 01:32 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,725,501 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
But the BASICS and dominant identity still remains the same and that is what you and some others are in denial about.
Quote:
Nobody said the culture was "non existant". They're saying its a composite of many, and doesn't have to conform to that of one ethnic group.
ROFL! Unless, of course, the culture happens to be that of their 'grupo'! Then we are all expected to learn spanish and get used to paying exorbitant amounts of taxes required to support the illegals and their millions of equally uneducated, unskilled relatives they will drag over here.
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Old 12-05-2009, 01:36 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,725,501 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardndapaint View Post
You're a real idealist, huh?
There are nearly homogenous countries that don't get along. It isn't culture or race that holds a country together. Or the necessity of having a dominant race.
What holds a country together is financial stability.

Take financial stability away from ANY country and it will fall apart.

You sound bitter that the ethnics are "taking over" or something. Like you're losing a dominant position, and you're saddened by it. You don't have much faith in this country if you think it's too intolerant to handle diversity. I'd like to think more of the American people, which for me might include more than it does for others on here.

Countries that extolled the virtues of having one culture, one religion and one race have failed horribly. Nazi Germany for example.
Not to say what your'e saying necessarily describes Nazi Germany, but your thinking is the groundwork that leads to that kind of thing.
Really? I do not see Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore and South Korea as countries that have failed horribly. As a matter of fact, if I wish to see countries that are train wrecks, countries that have done nothing but make a great big mess out of things then go around blaming everybody else, all I need to do is look south of the border.
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Old 12-05-2009, 02:05 AM
 
18 posts, read 9,980 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Really? I do not see Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore and South Korea as countries that have failed horribly. As a matter of fact, if I wish to see countries that are train wrecks, countries that have done nothing but make a great big mess out of things then go around blaming everybody else, all I need to do is look south of the border.
Did you see the word "all"?
The common factor in those cities is a great economy. You can be homogeneous or diverse, what keeps a country together is economic stability.

And your comments about Latin America show a very pedantic understanding of global politics. A worthless comment of someone who wants to oversimplify things.
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Old 12-05-2009, 06:47 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,725,996 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardndapaint View Post
Did you see the word "all"?
The common factor in those cities is a great economy. You can be homogeneous or diverse, what keeps a country together is economic stability.

And your comments about Latin America show a very pedantic understanding of global politics. A worthless comment of someone who wants to oversimplify things.
Try again: the cold reality is with the notable exception of post WW II Spain; all Hispanic nations are socioeconomic basket cases compared to Japan, S Korea, or another other First World nation.

And the 'race card' does not apply since Argentina is the 'Whitest' nation in the New World (97%) yet it is as poor as Mexico (mostly Mestizo)........both are ca. $14K per capita income. Guatemala, etc. are worse off yet.
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Old 12-05-2009, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,864,905 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Interesting points.....but there's probably no concepts in any society anywhere that weren't borrowed from somewhere else. There isn't a single human being alive whose ancestors, at some point in history, didn't abuse someone else's ancestors. And there's probably nobody on earth who lives ANYWHERE, on land that didn't formerly belong to someone else, and was very likely taken from them by force. There is no culture anywhere that has a 'clean record'...and no culture anywhere wose members regard OTHER cultures as 'just as good as us'. EVERY culture thinks its members live in 'the right way', and that the actions of OTHER cultures are 'odd', or 'strange'.

ALL existing nations fit this description; all ethnic groups, tribes, races, and religions as well. We understand this, and we realize other places have their failings and their 'skeletons', and we simply take this into account, and that's that....with ONE exception...the United States. This nation...and ONLY this nation...is expected to 'deliver' on a sort of promise that was made to the entire human race...."come here, and be free and prosperous, and live in peace...and it doesn't matter who you are, we promise this to you". Basically, that's what the US represents....and when it doesn't achieve 100% success, we get mad.

American society is an 'experiment'. Nobody had ever constructed a society like it, and to this day, nobody knows how it will come out. Is it possible to take in a virtually limitless number of people, of every culture and 'mindset' and lifestyle known to mankind, put them together here, put virtually NO restrictions on them, ask virtually NOTHING of them in return, ask no allegiance or loyalty, and guarantee total 'success', harmony, and happiness to ALL of them? In my opinion, no, it's not. It doesn't work overseas; there's no reason to think it should work here. NO organization can exist without some sort of a central 'theme', to which its members agree to adhere. It's impossible.

Maybe we just CAN'T have unlimited multiculturalism, and unlimited freedom, and still have a coherent society; maybe no society can. Maybe people just aren't designed that way. And maybe in the end, we'll have to face the fact that we simply CAN'T please each and every group..maybe we'll find, in the end, that it's possible to please only 85 or 90% of people, and the rest are just going to be angry and resentful. Honestly, I don't know. But I do know this...the only society that we DEMAND must live up to this ideal, is that of the USA....Why? Because that's what we SAID we'd do, in the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. No other nation do we hold to this standard. In that sense, we're unique. And when you're unique, it gets a little hard to truly determine whether you're doing "good" or "bad"....

Just wanted to make that observation.
And, and EXCELLENT observation, it is.
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