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Old 12-01-2009, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,637,375 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I agree...that "anglo" stuff is just a small part of the American culture....the part that includes the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, the 'Four Freedoms'.(Freedom from fear; Freedom of Speech; Freedom from want; Freedom of Worship)...Also the 'Right to remain silent' when arrested; the presumption of innocence until proven guilty; the right to a trial by a jury of one's peers...all that "stuffy" part of the culture. Those Anglos are pretty stuffy...(I know, since a couple of generations ago, it wouldn't have been MY culture, either...my family had to 'learn' it).

The IMPORTANT stuff, though? The 'exciting' parts of culture?...the art, the music, the cuisine? Rap music? Hip hop? Skateboarding? That's not 'anglo' at all....(everyone KNOWS anglos can't COOK, for heaven sake....and who ever heard of 'anglo music'?...'anglo dancing'? Forget it !!).

So I agree...our culture is PART anglo, and part other....and the anglo part isn't important, until things go wrong...and then I'll be thanking GOD for the basic laws those stuffy old dead "anglos" wrote, so the REST of us can 'be ourselves'. I'm sure glad MY ancestors weren't involved in writing the rules we now live by....(although we had a FEW good musicians).


If I want to live in a 'colorful' society, I can do that anywhere. When the time comes that I want a decent system, though, I'm afraid I'm going to go with what the "anglos" came up with. They can't dance, you say? Honestly, I don't care. I like their notions of liberty. Dacing I can find on my own.
Again: an excellent, well thought Op-Ed from macmeal.
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Old 12-01-2009, 06:01 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,156,126 times
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No one is saying that white/anglo or American culture is superior. It just is what it is, our basic culture. If Mexicans in Mexico claim that Hispanic is their basic culture does that make them superior for stating the truth and wanting to retain their basic culture? Does that mean that they are unaccepting of other cultures or not acknowledging that they exist in their country?
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Old 12-01-2009, 06:08 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,156,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
What is "American" culture? Still haven't answered it. The examples I gave were that there are MANY definitions of French culture. Same with America, IMO...what about you, what defines an American?
If you don't already know then I can't help you. We have already discussed this ad nauseum. I brought up the English language for starters. Yes, we are all Americans on paper if we hold citizenship but sometimes culturally one isn't if they don't assimilate to the basic culture but instead remain separate and reject American culture for a foreign culture instead as their primary lifestyle and culture.

Last edited by chicagonut; 12-01-2009 at 06:19 PM..
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Old 12-01-2009, 06:14 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,156,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
We've come full circle now. You claim you want to acknoledge the presence of minority cultures in our country but then you say that it is rude that they don't assimilate, which if you've checked your dictionary means the merging of cultural traits from previously distinct cultural groups, not involving biological amalgamation....meaning that their culture becomes your culture. So which is it? You're bringing up two contradictory ideas.
From wikepedia and dictionary.com

Cultural assimilation is a process of socialization by which individuals or groups are absorbed into and adopt to the culture of another society or group.

As you can see assimilation is one being absorbed into a society and adopting the culture of THAT society. It doesn't mean that the host society should adopt or assimilate to the culture of the foreinger in their country. You have it a@@ backwards.
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Old 12-01-2009, 06:33 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,090,879 times
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Of course Anglo Saxon culture is the culture that everyone lives in and with. The fact that english is the predominate language, and the language that our constitution and governing doctrines is written in means that this country, by its very nature, has an Anglo Saxon cultural foundation. All other incoming cultures only really act to influence the existing Anglo Saxon culture.

All of our laws were legislated and influenced by European culture. Even within the civil rights movement, no one was marching and giving speaches in swahili or spanish or anything. Blacks based their civil rights efforts on the existing creed of the nation, which was enacted by European Americans. For better or worse, our lifestyle is dictated by Anglo Saxon values and laws. That may change in the distant future, but until there is a drastic change in the tide of voter sentiment, for the most part we will remain ruled by Anglo Saxon values and laws.
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Old 12-01-2009, 06:40 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,156,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
Of course Anglo Saxon culture is the culture that everyone lives in and with. The fact that english is the predominate language, and the language that our constitution and governing doctrines is written in means that this country, by its very nature, has an Anglo Saxon cultural foundation. All other incoming cultures only really act to influence the existing Anglo Saxon culture.

All of our laws were legislated and influenced by European culture. Even within the civil rights movement, no one was marching and giving speaches in swahili or spanish or anything. Blacks based their civil rights efforts on the existing creed of the nation, which was enacted by European Americans. For better or worse, our lifestyle is dictated by Anglo Saxon values and laws. That may change in the distant future, but until there is a drastic change in the tide of voter sentiment, for the most part we will remain ruled by Anglo Saxon values and laws.
Yet some in here remain in continual denial of this. My only guess as to why is because they want THEIR native culture or some other foreign culture to replace ours as our basic culture. They will never admit it though. Much easier to play the race card and to push multi-culterism than to reveal their real agenda.
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Old 12-01-2009, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,637,375 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
No one is saying that white/anglo or American culture is superior. It just is what it is, our basic culture. If Mexicans in Mexico claim that Hispanic is their basic culture does that make them superior for stating the truth and wanting to retain their basic culture? Does that mean that they are unaccepting of other cultures or not acknowledging that they exist in their country?
I have to disagree there: our Anglo culture is clearly superior to at least New World Hispanic culture based on Latinos wanting to live here en masse whereas most Americans have no desire to live anywhere in Latin America due in large part to the lack of Rule of Law in Mexico on down south.

The most recent analogy I can give of WASP culture being remotely Third World at one time would be our American South till the mid 1960's with Jim Crow laws, lack of initiative, etc.
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Old 12-01-2009, 06:49 PM
 
Location: North Texas
23,615 posts, read 31,177,547 times
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Replace the word "culture" with the word "values" and see how that changes the argument.

A lot of middle American values, regardless of ethnicity, include:

  • Knowing and appreciating the value of a dollar
  • Willingness to put in an honest day's work for those dollars
  • Sobriety
  • Respect for authority/law
  • Respect for fair play
  • A desire for equality in opportunities
  • Having the family as the core of your network
  • Not gaming the system
  • Getting ahead with hard work, i.e. playing by the rules
A lot of illegals simply do not share all of these values; they have demonstrated that loud and clear with their behavior. IMHO, therein lies the conflict.
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Old 12-01-2009, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,637,375 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
Replace the word "culture" with the word "values" and see how that changes the argument.

A lot of middle American values, regardless of ethnicity, include:

  • Knowing and appreciating the value of a dollar
  • Willingness to put in an honest day's work for those dollars
  • Sobriety
  • Respect for authority/law
  • Respect for fair play
  • A desire for equality in opportunities
  • Having the family as the core of your network
  • Not gaming the system
  • Getting ahead with hard work, i.e. playing by the rules
A lot of illegals simply do not share all of these values; they have demonstrated that loud and clear with their behavior. IMHO, therein lies the conflict.
What you just outlined is one huge reason why Jewish and Japanese legal immigrants tend to fit in so well here in the USA-----------they basic cultural values roughly align with ours.
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Old 12-01-2009, 08:15 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,620,778 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
Replace the word "culture" with the word "values" and see how that changes the argument.

A lot of middle American values, regardless of ethnicity, include:

  • Knowing and appreciating the value of a dollar
  • Willingness to put in an honest day's work for those dollars
  • Sobriety
  • Respect for authority/law
  • Respect for fair play
  • A desire for equality in opportunities
  • Having the family as the core of your network
  • Not gaming the system
  • Getting ahead with hard work, i.e. playing by the rules
A lot of illegals simply do not share all of these values; they have demonstrated that loud and clear with their behavior. IMHO, therein lies the conflict.
There's a lot of good points here. However, I have a few arguments. One is with your 7th point, "Having the family as the core" (etc)...Having the family as one's main 'focus' is very much part of the culture of most of the Third World; in fact, that is a large part of the problem. Many of these folks have never experienced a society in which the laws, or the social order, were anything more than a cruel joke. In such conditions, one's family becomes not only his 'main support', oftentimes it's his ONLY reliable support. In a land where the laws are stacked against the poor, where the police are corrupt, and where civil rights are a matter of one's income, or race, or religion, the only 'backup' one has is his 'in-group'...family, friends, and aquaintances. Everyone else is a potential enemy, or a rival, and if you don't lok out for your own group, nobody else will. It becomes strictly a matter of "us against the world"...(even if 'the world' means the rest of society, including its laws and standards).

This 'tribal' mindset flies directly in the face of what is required to live and prosper in a free, democratic, and multiracial society. Here, we HAVE to 'trust strangers', and family ties, and loyalties MUST take second place to the rule of law. If that is not the case, the system breaks down.

Illegal immigrants usually have no problem at all regarding 'family' as important. Their problem is realizing that 'taking care of family' does not give one the right to ignore the law of the land. That's a tough point to internalize, when you're from a place where "laws" are basically a joke.
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