Thailand has the right Idea (medical, visas, activist, Reed) - Page 14 - City-Data Forum

that1guy · 12-30-2009, 04:55 PM

We already have several guest worker programs. How many more do you think we need? We don't need to educate them on our dime. They need to go home and get an education. Why should we find a way to normalize them when deportation is what our laws dictate? We don't need millions more added to our population growth permanantly. It just puts more burden on our social infrastructures and their low paying jobs don't cover such costs.

We have the H-2A. Which is currently serving 30,000 people only in agriculture and only for 1 year. We also have H-1B...but there are many things wrong with this visa well. We should find something that is widespread, addresses the needs of employees, employers, and the rest of society.

We do need to educate all those living within the US. There are other cuts that we can make besides in education. In fact, we should increase educational spending.

Again, malthusian population theory isn't really applicable in the real world.

The way to deal with illegal immigration is what our laws state, period.

Not really...no. We need laws that actually portray the current situation and address the needs of all persons involved.

Benicar · 12-30-2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by that1guy

Doesn't make sense. I've gone through all of the above. Read previous posts concerning ID theft, taxes, etc.

And if the daily circumstances DON'T change...no, that's not truly substantive.

I don’t need to re-read your posts. If you can’t comprehend that absolving criminals of their crimes is in fact a reward, then so be it. If all of the citizens guilty of theft were summarily granted a free pass, would that not be the opposite of punishment? In other words, a “reward.”

Furthermore, if their lives won’t change with legalization, why do they need to be legalized?

that1guy · 12-30-2009, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benicar

What reward? Are you serious? So we should ignore their crimes simply because they are already here? Do you actually not realize how utterly ridiculous this is?

Wow. That's all I have to say. Nice outpouring of emotion. What's ridiculous is that many don't realize how the situation came about. That our American success depended on poverty in other parts of the world, including Mexico. This is not a good or bad thing, it is what it is, but we can't fault people for not wanting a continuation of the inequal global system we have.

chicagonut · 12-30-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by that1guy

Wrong again, enforcement by the raids, fence and the actions that our states are taking are deterring them and causing them to leave, not just the economy.

The raids haven't ebbed the flow. The fence pushed illegal immigration further east.

The construction industry comes to mind for one thing. It used to pay a middle class wage.....no more thanks to the illegals.

The average construction worker in CA makes 30-40k a year. That's still middle class. Most people are dual income. Again, illegal immigrants are more seen in the lower segments of construction...not in more skilled parts.

So being nationalistic is a bad thing? Guess every country in the world is nationalistic then by having immigration laws. Oh the shame and horror!

Yeah, being hyper nationalistic is bad. Ask GWB.

I'll tell you what is scary and that is Americans that put illegal foreinger's interests above the national interest and the interests of their fellow citizens.

What? Not even close to being true. Hey, if you don't want to see all the variables and how things interrelate to each other...that's on you. Sorry if others take multiple things into account.

The fence has been a deterrant obviously by their attempt to enter thru more dangerous and non-fenced areas. Fewer are trying and fewer are succeeding. Internal enforcement has also been a deterrant.

Fewer Americans are holding construction jobs due to the supply of cheap illegal labor and that was my point. Sorry you missed that.

Bush policies has nothing to do with my point about being nationalistic. It is about your average everyday American wanting secure borders and our immigration laws enforced and resepected. Bush was pro-amnesty in case you have forgotten that and he was just as guilty as many former presidents of not enforcing our immigration laws.

The only variables there are, are those Americans who are pro-laws and pro-America or those that are not.

Benicar · 12-30-2009, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by that1guy

Wow. That's all I have to say. Nice outpouring of emotion. What's ridiculous is that many don't realize how the situation came about. That our American success depended on poverty in other parts of the world, including Mexico. This is not a good or bad thing, it is what it is, but we can't fault people for not wanting a continuation of the inequal global system we have.

Oh please. I don’t give a damn “why” or “how” we now have 20+ million illegals sucking this country dry. I am only concerned with resolving this problem; which, by the way, does NOT include granting amnesty. We have every right to demand the enforcement of our laws. It’s time for them to leave, period.

that1guy · 12-30-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benicar

I don’t need to re-read your posts. If you can’t comprehend that absolving criminals of their crimes is in fact a reward, then so be it. If all of the citizens guilty of theft were summarily granted a free pass, would that not be the opposite of punishment? In other words, a “reward.”

Furthermore, if their lives won’t change with legalization, why do they need to be legalized?

Yeah you do...since there are exaggerations on your part. Theft? Oh geez...

Well, more so to have an accurate description of how many people are here (thus, how to better allocate funds as well as help solving issues regarding representation).

that1guy · 12-30-2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benicar

Oh please. I don’t give a damn “why” or “how” we now have 20+ million illegals sucking this country dry. I am only concerned with resolving this problem; which, by the way, does NOT include granting amnesty. We have every right to demand the enforcement of our laws. It’s time for them to leave, period.

You should. Knowledge of the problem is required to solve the problem.

Benicar · 12-30-2009, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by that1guy

Yeah you do...since there are exaggerations on your part. Theft? Oh geez...

Well, more so to have an accurate description of how many people are here (thus, how to better allocate funds as well as help solving issues regarding representation).

Yes theft. What do you call people who steal the identities of others? What do you call people who steal benefits? What do you call people who work under the table and pay no taxes? I call them thieves.

that1guy · 12-30-2009, 05:10 PM

The fence has been a deterrant obviously by their attempt to enter thru more dangerous and non-fenced areas. Fewer are trying and fewer are succeeding. Internal enforcement has also been a deterrant.

So is that why there has been no change in the rate of increase?

Fewer Americans are holding construction jobs due to the supply of cheap illegal labor and that was my point. Sorry you missed that.

Really? In case you missed out on the housing bubble, the majority of people who held construction jobs were American. Not even immigrants, but born American. I don't know if you knew that or not...Also how do you explain the average income of the construction industry being, well, average.

Bush policies has nothing to do with my point about being nationalistic. It is about your average everyday American wanting secure borders and our immigration laws enforced and resepected. Bush was pro-amnesty in case you have forgotten that and he was just as guilty as many former presidents of not enforceing our immigration laws.

I never said they did. I simply pointed out the perils of hyper-nationalism. In case you forgot, he was known for his hyper-nationalism.

The only variables there are, are those Americans who are pro-laws and pro-America or they are not.

That's one of the "best" sentences I've read today. That's a good laugh, but sadly scary that a so called "educated" person as yourself would take such a narrow view.

that1guy · 12-30-2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benicar

Yes theft. What do you call people who steal the identities of others? What do you call people who steal benefits? What do you call people who work under the table and pay no taxes? I call them thieves.

Read my previous posts on the matter if you really want the links and facts and figures.