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Old 01-02-2010, 08:58 PM
 
Location: central Oregon
1,855 posts, read 2,021,912 times
Reputation: 2377

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbartlebee View Post
I have a better idea. Deport all illegal alien lawbreakers so they won't make an underclass in this country. If we do that, then we won't have to do all of those other things on your gift list for illegal aliens paid for by American taxpayers.
For those who say the cost is too high to deport all the illegals: If we allow them to stay they will be a burden forever; if we deport them all it may take years to pay off that debt, but in less than a decade we will be free of the financial burden called "illegal aliens".
Pay now, save later!


The Cost of deporting Illegal Aliens against Permitting them to Remain « Illegal Immigration Unacceptable
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Old 01-03-2010, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,859,501 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
This again implies a perfect market situation in which there would be no black market or fraudulent hiring practices. Illegal immigrants are much more likely to more in unregulated informal sector jobs, away from gov't scrutiny.

The only way self deportation works, as we now are seeing, is if market conditions make their country of origin somehow more attractive (for example what the gov't of Ecuador is doing for those coming back).
You of course are assuming that a nation wide crack down on employers wouldn't work. Make the penalty harsh enough and it will.
Make life difficult enough for illegals and it will force self deportation. We have evidence of this. The states that have cracked down have seen huge drops in the illegal population.
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Old 01-03-2010, 11:53 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,071,893 times
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You of course are assuming that a nation wide crack down on employers wouldn't work. Make the penalty harsh enough and it will.

So there wouldn't be a black market or any fraudulent hires?

Make life difficult enough for illegals and it will force self deportation. We have evidence of this. The states that have cracked down have seen huge drops in the illegal population.

Again, some of these states have also had some of the worst economies in the US (AZ is not teeming with prosperity after the housing decline). So, it may more likely be due to poor economic conditions here in the US.
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Old 01-05-2010, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Duluth, Minnesota, USA
7,653 posts, read 14,724,543 times
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WHO: 10 million + undocumented immigrants. At least from Mexico, in the poorer class of society.

WHERE: Mainly from Mexico, China, El Salvador, Guatemala, but from other regions as well.

WHY: Mostly due to an unjust economic structure in their home countries, in which the only hope for a better life for their families is to cross the border and find low-wage (by US standards; but very high wage by theirs) employment

SHOULD: Grant amnesty. Establish a guest-worker program that gives preference to native-born Americans, but corrects for labor shortages in certain fields by importing labor.

SHOULD NOT: Mistreat them.
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Old 01-05-2010, 09:54 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,071,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvdxer View Post
WHO: 10 million + undocumented immigrants. At least from Mexico, in the poorer class of society.

WHERE: Mainly from Mexico, China, El Salvador, Guatemala, but from other regions as well.

WHY: Mostly due to an unjust economic structure in their home countries, in which the only hope for a better life for their families is to cross the border and find low-wage (by US standards; but very high wage by theirs) employment

SHOULD: Grant amnesty. Establish a guest-worker program that gives preference to native-born Americans, but corrects for labor shortages in certain fields by importing labor.

SHOULD NOT: Mistreat them.
A lot of this sounds perfectly reasonable. With the should I like how you bridge the gap between both sides (the guest worker idea with the preference).
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:27 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,598,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvdxer View Post

SHOULD: Grant amnesty. Establish a guest-worker program that gives preference to native-born Americans, but corrects for labor shortages in certain fields by importing labor.

SHOULD NOT: Mistreat them.
DID:...Grant amnesty; in 1986; for 3 million people; also a number smaller amnesties; each was to be the 'final' amnesty.

RESULT:....That amnesty encouraged more illegals to come. Now we have possibly 12 - 15 million, angrier and more resentful than before.

WHAT WOULD HAPPEN :...Granting amnesty to our present 12 million would encourage another 20 million.

WHAT WOULD NOT HAPPEN:...The ACLU, ethnic lobbyists, and all sorts of other groups would NEVER sit still for a system which "gave preference to native-born Americans". This would be shot down before it was implemented.

SHOULD:...Put pressure on 'donor' countries sending illegals to improve their lot at home, and never again be tempted to grant amnesty to lawbreakers. It's an insult to legal immigrants, if nothing else.
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:36 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,071,893 times
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DID:...Grant amnesty; in 1986; for 3 million people; also a number smaller amnesties; each was to be the 'final' amnesty.

Yet we made no other provsions to those programs.

RESULT:....That amnesty encouraged more illegals to come. Now we have possibly 12 - 15 million, angrier and more resentful than before.

Was it solely amnesty related? Because during the 1980s with the en-masse liberalization of the Mexican economy the wealth gap increased. Thus, the poor became poorer and the rich became richer. Less opportunities were available. Ironically, this was per the suggestion of the IMF (which we have a lot of influence over, seeing how it's headquared in DC).

WHAT WOULD HAPPEN :...Granting amnesty to our present 12 million would encourage another 20 million.

Change WOULD to COULD. Again, it also depends on SEVERAL other factors as well.

WHAT WOULD NOT HAPPEN:...The ACLU, ethnic lobbyists, and all sorts of other groups would NEVER sit still for a system which "gave preference to native-born Americans". This would be shot down before it was implemented.

See above.

SHOULD:...Put pressure on 'donor' countries sending illegals to improve their lot at home, and never again be tempted to grant amnesty to lawbreakers. It's an insult to legal immigrants, if nothing else.

How do you put pressure on 'donor' countries? Do we change their economy (we already did that and their countries ended up worse than before)? Do we invade (that's not a good idea for obvious reasons)?

Obviously a coordinated effort between countries of origin our nation should exist.

Amnesty could be just part of the solution, not the entire solution.

As being an insult to legal immigrants, I think that this could simply be speculation, or if not they are simply led to act in a fraternity mentality (I did it this way, therefore everybody should...not taking into consideration that the current immigration policies may not be the best policies in place).
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