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Why is that a joke? Didn't all of us here gain our citizenship the same way?
My forebears came here univited and without any controls at all back in the 1620's. In other words, they were "illegals," why should I get to stay under such an idea? We've now had several generations of "anchor" babies and, if that process were to be deemed grounds for denying citizenship, why would it not apply to all their offspring, including you?
What part of there were no immigration laws back in those times don't you get? My ancestors came here in the early 1900's when there were immigation laws and they followed those laws to come here. So how are my ancestors illegals and how am I an anchor baby? I was born here from parents who were also born here and my grandparents came here legally.
Ok, you may say, let's start by expelling all those 12-20 million illegals already here (depending upon whose numbers you chose).
Think about that for a moment. Think of the resources available and what resources would be required to identify them, find them, round them up, hold them (including providing temporary shelter, food and basic medical care) and what would be necessary to transport them to the border (I'll give you hint on that. It has been estimated that it would take fleet of busses which stretches from San Francico to Alaska and there aren't that many busses in the whole world). And, consider that millions of them do NOT come from Mexico, so what do we do with them? Dump 'em in Mexico and let them handle it? I doubt the Mexican's would allow that. Or, are you willing to bear the cost of flying them home?
The inescapable fact is that we have little option but choke down our revulsion and welcome those now here with open arms. In other word, amnesty. Nothing else is practical.
Wrong.
Cut illegal aliens off from all jobs with the strict enforcement of a mandatory E-Verify program. Cut illegal aliens off from all taxpayer funded social services and benefits programs by using a mandatory E-Verify or another mandatory verification/qualification program. Crack down hard on employers who knowingly hire illegal aliens by imposing huge fines. Without access to jobs or to any type of taypayer funded benefits/services, millions of illegal aliens would begin to self-deport. Many of the remaining illegal aliens would eventually be caught as they come to the attention of law enforcement when they commit a crime or get pulled over for driving/vehicle infractions and violations.
At the same time, we need to tightly secure our borders in order to reduce the number of illegal aliens who sneak in. We also need to do a better job of tracking foreigners who are in this country on visas to make sure that they leave once their visas expire.
The estimated 15-25 million (or more) illegal aliens didn't all get here overnight, and we're not going to be able to rid our country of them overnight. But if we implement the necessary programs and measures, and enforce the necessary laws, we can rid our country of most illegal aliens, no matter how many months or years it may take.
Last edited by mrbartlebee; 01-01-2010 at 07:11 PM..
Reason: To clarify meaning of sentence
No, of course not, but I don't think that's as big a problem as people suspect. Sure, it happens, but most come here for the work and opportunity, just as did our fore fathers.
Until there is no work then it's simply "opportunity" at the expense of those who built our legal citizen safety net.
US law defines a citizen as someone who is born here or has gone through the process of naturalization.
The so-called "anchor babies" didn't have a say in where they were born and, in fact, ARE US citizens, whether anyone likes that or not. The citizenship of their parents is a moot point and entirely irrelative.
To "deport" them would open a whole new field of law and adminstrative rules which could not help but allow the government to "deport" ANY citizen because all citizens are considered the same under the Constitution, federal law and state law.
Are you sure that's a can of worms you really want to open? Do you REALLY want the government to have the power to toss out those who were born here? You know, that might include you too.
The declaration of their parents as being here illegally or legally is relevant. Yes, The Constitution is being cited as the reason why the babies of illegal immigrants who are born here are US Citizens. The question that I always asked was this: if those babies, children, are born here via, by-way-of, illegal immigration, should they be US Citizens? If the obtainment of that right is accomplished by illegal means then should it "count?"
Yes. The government takes upon power to do all sorts of things at different times. The US government is so powerful in that since that it has gotten away with doing many different things that people don't like. Yet, in this situation when people are asking them to do something, it isn't being so boldly done. Also, in regards to your comment about the government throwing us out, I doubt the change would include anything other than those who were born here via violations of immigration laws. I mean, think about it, what other country would not mind granting citizenship to a person even when they were born in that country to parents who were illegally there? You shouldn't just hand out citizenship like that. People act like the US government can't do what it has always done: put things into affect that are shocking. The thing is, most of the people who would disapprove of this are the same people fighting for illegal immigrants while the rest of the country understands the problem with illegal immigration.
Why is that a joke? Didn't all of us here gain our citizenship the same way?
My forebears came here univited and without any controls at all back in the 1620's. In other words, they were "illegals," why should I get to stay under such an idea? We've now had several generations of "anchor" babies and, if that process were to be deemed grounds for denying citizenship, why would it not apply to all their offspring, including you?
That is totally ridiculous!!!! The 1620’s??? Your previous post advocating the “anchor babies” was well responded by many which have disproved that “RIDICULOUS” statement as well!!! Bottom line, allowing the legality of the “anchor babies” is a serious “loop hole” and our laws need to be reformed now.
Lets get real, we all now why they “anchor” their babies here. As someone had previously posted, they claim they are so family oriented. Then I ask why are they using their babies as their ticket in to our country. I know, because we’re idiots and allow it!!!!
NO MORE!!!!! I’m sick of it!!! No more sympathy – No more compassion – PERIOD!!!
Nice to know that the law is working the way it should! Sorry, liberals, no sympathy here. Send them all back to Mexico. If Mexico can shell out $24 billion a year in federal fuel subsidies so they can fill their SUVs for cheap and give away free Viagra to men over 70, both of which are cheerfully paid for by the Mexican taxpayer, they can jolly well take care of their own poor people. What part of "No more free rides" do you not understand?!
Exactly - parental responsibility. It was THEIR choice to have their children born here while they themselves were here illegally. They knew the risks yet they went ahead. Now they should be made to face the consequences.
The point is not that the illegals should be here and be welcomed with open arms, but that we have so many of them now that our options are limited. We have been invaded, and successfully so. That's not a statement of support for illegals on my part, but a simple statement of fact. We may all wish it weren't so, but is and it's far better to face reality than to keep on dreaming.
And, on the issue of babies born here, the law says what the law says. Accept it. They ARE US citizens and DO have every right to remain here as you do and every protection under the Constitution that you enjoy. I doubt that's going to change.
To the poster above who mentioned the previous amnesty: You're right. We did do that once before, but in spite of promises to the contrary, nothing was done to make it more difficult to come here during the ensuing years. Neither the Reagan, Bush, Clinton or Bush adminstrations made any real effort to control entry across our borders (neither did Congress) and, in fact, seems to have turned a blind eye to the influx of cheap labor. It would be easy to advance the premise that they did so for the benefit of their corporate benefactors and I don't think that would be far from the truth. That the border has essentially remained wide open now for nearly 30 years is not an accident.
However, no matter how or why it happened, it did and we are left to clean up the mess. Of course, the immediate emotional response is "Kick 'em all out," but the practicalities of doing that are daunting to the point of impossibility. We simply cannot do it and, even if we adopted new polices which strangled off the jobs they come here for, it's unlikely a great many of them would leave voluntarily because, without income, they can't afford to leave. I dare say no rational person would expect to see millions of starving families trudging south on foot, so we'd still have to find some way to identify, collect, hold and transport them to the border.
If anyone has a plan for doing that, I'd like to hear it. The quick answer is "Use the military." Well, just how many people do you think we have in uniform and how many of them are suited by training and experience for the task? And, how many are actually here, in CONUS, and available for use? Not nearly as many as you might suppose and far from enough. It sounds good on paper, but when you sit down, examine what's available and where to put them to do what, you find that there would be a huge, huge shortage of troops and equipment, even if we withdrew every soldier from our many overseas commitments.
The bottom line is that they are here and there's not much we can do about it. One poster likened that to "throwing in the towel," but I think it's more of a case of facing the reality of the situation and doing the best you can. Dreaming that it might not be as it is isn't a solution. It's sticking your head into the sand.
Amnesty is a necessity, but as with in the 80's, it won't work unless it's accompanied by a real, honest, legitimate effort to prevent it happening again and that STARTS with criminalizing the hiring of illegals. As a companion to that, there must be some kind of national ID (I know, that offends my libertarian soul too) to separate us from them. Without that, employers would have no way to determine who is, or is not, hireable.
Frankly, I doubt that will happen. Yes, we'll get an national ID, but strict legal sanctions against employers is a pipe dream so long as Washington runs on money. I suspect we'll also get a huge bill for the cost of "beefing" up security on the border, but it won't work. As Janet Napolitano said of the border fence while she was Governor of Arizona, "Show me a 40 ft fence and I'll show you a 41 ft ladder."
The point is not that the illegals should be here and be welcomed with open arms, but that we have so many of them now that our options are limited. We have been invaded, and successfully so. That's not a statement of support for illegals on my part, but a simple statement of fact. We may all wish it weren't so, but is and it's far better to face reality than to keep on dreaming.
And, on the issue of babies born here, the law says what the law says. Accept it. They ARE US citizens and DO have every right to remain here as you do and every protection under the Constitution that you enjoy. I doubt that's going to change.
To the poster above who mentioned the previous amnesty: You're right. We did do that once before, but in spite of promises to the contrary, nothing was done to make it more difficult to come here during the ensuing years. Neither the Reagan, Bush, Clinton or Bush adminstrations made any real effort to control entry across our borders (neither did Congress) and, in fact, seems to have turned a blind eye to the influx of cheap labor. It would be easy to advance the premise that they did so for the benefit of their corporate benefactors and I don't think that would be far from the truth. That the border has essentially remained wide open now for nearly 30 years is not an accident.
However, no matter how or why it happened, it did and we are left to clean up the mess. Of course, the immediate emotional response is "Kick 'em all out," but the practicalities of doing that are daunting to the point of impossibility. We simply cannot do it and, even if we adopted new polices which strangled off the jobs they come here for, it's unlikely a great many of them would leave voluntarily because, without income, they can't afford to leave. I dare say no rational person would expect to see millions of starving families trudging south on foot, so we'd still have to find some way to identify, collect, hold and transport them to the border.
If anyone has a plan for doing that, I'd like to hear it. The quick answer is "Use the military." Well, just how many people do you think we have in uniform and how many of them are suited by training and experience for the task? And, how many are actually here, in CONUS, and available for use? Not nearly as many as you might suppose and far from enough. It sounds good on paper, but when you sit down, examine what's available and where to put them to do what, you find that there would be a huge, huge shortage of troops and equipment, even if we withdrew every soldier from our many overseas commitments.
The bottom line is that they are here and there's not much we can do about it. One poster likened that to "throwing in the towel," but I think it's more of a case of facing the reality of the situation and doing the best you can. Dreaming that it might not be as it is isn't a solution. It's sticking your head into the sand.
Amnesty is a necessity, but as with in the 80's, it won't work unless it's accompanied by a real, honest, legitimate effort to prevent it happening again and that STARTS with criminalizing the hiring of illegals. As a companion to that, there must be some kind of national ID (I know, that offends my libertarian soul too) to separate us from them. Without that, employers would have no way to determine who is, or is not, hireable.
Frankly, I doubt that will happen. Yes, we'll get an national ID, but strict legal sanctions against employers is a pipe dream so long as Washington runs on money. I suspect we'll also get a huge bill for the cost of "beefing" up security on the border, but it won't work. As Janet Napolitano said of the border fence while she was Governor of Arizona, "Show me a 40 ft fence and I'll show you a 41 ft ladder."
Viable options have been provided in here as to how to make most of them leave on their own and deter anymore from coming here yet you go on about it as being an impossible venture. Why is that? Those ARE the realities that you want to claim don't exist.
No one has said that by law their anchors aren't citizens but the birthright citizenship clause should be interpreted as it was meant and can be in the future. Realistically it probably won't be made retroactive but we have to start at some point and move forward to prevent any further abuse.
We all know our government is to blame for all of this after the 1986 amnesty's empty promises and no one is denying it. But I'll be damned if American citizens should be forced to accept these millions into our society permanantly because of their lax of enforcement of our immigration laws and not securing our borders as promised. The government allowed this mess to occur and it is they that should make it up to the American people by doing what is right for US.
You are wrong that most would still remain here if there were no jobs and benefits available to them. This BS about starving in Mexico if they left is just that....BS! At least in Mexico they would have access to jobs so your argument is moot. Many that came here already had jobs there but they came here because our jobs pay a lot more. No cost is too high to make sure they leave either voluntarilly or involuntarilly. If we can pay trillions for a war abroad we certainly can put out the dollars it will take to enforce our immigration laws at home.
You mention that a wall won't work but it will along with taking away any incentives to come here. No incentives to come here and they won't be using a ladder higher than the wall to get in here. The wall isn't only to deter illegal workers but terrorists, drug cartels and other criminals.
We have to make sure our government takes all the necessary steps this time around to stop illegal immigration in its tracks including securing our borders, going after the employers and removing all incentives for anyone to come here illegally. That was the mistake after the 1986 amnesty and this time around there will be no amnesty, only enforcement and deterrant measures taken.
We have to make sure our government takes all the necessary steps this time around to stop illegal immigration in its tracks including securing our borders, going after the employers and removing all incentives for anyone to come here illegally. That was the mistake after the 1986 amnesty and this time around there will be no amnesty, only enforcement and deterrant measures taken.
Well it didn't happen with the past administration and it doesn't seem it will happen with the current administration. Why even the unions are starting to get behind the illegals as they probably see some new fodder for membership. Reality is we are not enforcing our immigration policies and we are giving social welfare benefits to them. They have no reason to go home and no reason to fear being caught. The risk of coming here with its rewards far outways them staying in their country.
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