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Vikings? However- Clay, or maybe Calhoun, I cannot remember which, rose to make the statement in the U.S. Senate, "We do not want to annex all of Mexico to admix into our race an inferior one."
Representative A. Lincoln of Illinois fought against the Mexican-American War and arose to bitterly oppose it, calling it "nothing but a land grab". The spilling of American blood on U.S. soil claim being preposterous.
Of course Mexico would- take the entire southwest back, it was and still
would be quite a prize.
Though wholly unable to take the real estate, it could be done by simple assimilation-through repopulation, maybe not politically, but socially. Is there anything wrong with this ? Well , I won't live that long and really such an opinion would only arouse more antipathy here. I know this -walls have never worked ie. Germany, China or the South African Apartheid.
All of the bottom rung economic opportunities for individuals need to be "closed off" .
The remarks on a "slave class" of people is too extreme of a social scenario to be plausable or even considered. This is no black market, hiring is done openly and without consequence. A Very outlandish "theory" is all that I am allowed to state here. Slaves? Assimiltion will occur of succeeding generations. An ethnic population shift is underway on the continent. One by one.
Wal-Mart and other retailers can easily be policed, construction ,farms and ranches, might be impossible to monitor. No record keeping, income taxes paid, or documentation of pay on ranches is done of course, but that would reduce the influx of people if only simple record searches were done.
Service sector workers are highly visible through work records but no one seems to care or investigate ? Employer Fines are rarities
Repubs want a steady source of reduced- pay workers for industry and are leery of voter alienation , Dem. liberals look toward the humanitarian side or else court the somewhat sympathetic hispanic vote . Either way, immigration legislation never has any teeth, just naturalization as a solution. Everyone- seems to just look, the other way. It does aid this country in being in being more competitve worldwide, at a cost to the bottom rung workers here- among us of course.
Travelling fella, As best as I can recall correctly from college sociology - is that even when Mexico had a high economic growth rate- this rate was oustrippped by the population rate of new births. Poverty levels remained the same. Corruption in Fed. Govt. for the entitlement of elite wealthy interests maintains the huge disparity of income between the rich and the poor,yes. A small ,slowly growing middle class was stated as key to a larger tax base and the economic self-reliance of Mexico.....Maybe the same thing is beginning to happen here. Now,corporate influence is beginning to run the govt? A shrinking middle class ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear
So a few Aztecs may have been here prior to Cortez kicking their butts 500 years ago in what is now southern Mexico.............the odds are just as great that a few Vikings were here as well ca. 1000 AD. Using your reasoning: us Americans of at least western Euro White lineage have just as much right to be here as the Aztecs
Frankly; the USA did screw up (hindsight being 20/20) in not taking all of Mexico in 1848.
Memo to Huckster: unlike Germany where the people on both sides of the Berlin Wall did not want it................more and more Americans do want Mexico sealed off for a multitude of reasons.
As for the 'racism' component; that is what saved what was left of Mexico from being taken by the USA, had Mx been (mostly) White----------things would have been different and our border would have touched what is now Guatemala (they booted Mexico out as well after 1821) and Belize.
Memo to Huckster: unlike Germany where the people on both sides of the Berlin Wall did not want it................more and more Americans do want Mexico sealed off for a multitude of reasons.
As for the 'racism' component; that is what saved what was left of Mexico from being taken by the USA, had Mx been (mostly) White----------things would have been different and our border would have touched what is now Guatemala (they booted Mexico out as well after 1821) and Belize.
Walls do work to deter entry from the other side. It worked in Germany for some time and it worked in China. Anyone who says otherwise is in serious denial or just plain knows they work but have an agenda for open borders. Combine them with border security and internal enfocement and you have a pretty good handle on preventing illegal entry.
I agree, since Guatamala booted out the Mexicans why are they only crying about stolen land from the USA? I don't see them vying to take Guatamala back.
Point taken, but the mention of 'GPSs so they can safely find their way,' in subsequent posts, definitely refers to illegal aliens, not citizens. If La Raza advocated for American citizens of Hispanic/Latino descent only, there would be no problem. However they do spend a lot of time promoting agendas which are benecicial to illegal aliens, such as wanting them included in the healthcare bill, given driver's licenses, and granted amnesty.
So true and that is the bottom line argument of which the pro-illegals cannot refute.
Walls do work to deter entry from the other side. It worked in Germany for some time and it worked in China. Anyone who says otherwise is in serious denial or just plain knows they work but have an agenda for open borders. Combine them with border security and internal enfocement and you have a pretty good handle on preventing illegal entry.
I agree, since Guatamala booted out the Mexicans why are they only crying about stolen land from the USA? I don't see them vying to take Guatamala back.
Probably because Guatemala is a poor POS nation; much like southern Mexico whereas us 'Gringos' built our Southwest from nothing into a First World society where the Rule of Law prevails.
As it stands: it would not surprise me to see at least northern Mexico devolve to the USA courtesy of the deteriorating security situation----------at the residents' request.
Republican congressman Charlie Norwood of Georgia's ninth district has called La Raza a "radical...pro-illegal immigration lobbying organization that supports racist groups."
As a Mexican citizen who has been around the forums long enough to be aware of both sides of the situation, this is a description I can agree with, but I want to clarify that most people who live and work in Mexico and has never had the intentions of living in the USA, much less illegally, ignore completely that an organization called la raza exists, and much less what are it's goal, objectives, etc this is a an American based organization created by people who live in the USA. And backed up by American corporations who defend their own interests.
What it is interesting though is the following part of the article.
Unknown to many is the financial support La Raza receives from donors like Wal-Mart, Exxon Mobil, McDonalds, and hundreds of other corporations. In more civilized times, these donations would be considered treason. But many of these corporations support La Raza for two reasons: they have bought into the religion of political correctness, and they want cheap labor. (Subsequently, I have not set foot in a Wal-Mart for over six years because of their support for La Raza—not to mention the fact Wal-Mart imports most of its goods from China and practices crony (tax-payer subsidized) capitalism.)
Making an objective and honest point of view, I believe that organizations like this are more detrimental than beneficial to the people that supposedly they protect by the following reasons.
1 This kind of organizations just divide and polarize people, instead of generating sympathy or understandment between both parties in conflict, they produce rejection and indignation among those who are opposed and fear illegal immigration, and also give the people who feel "protected" by these kind of organizations the false sensation of support which creates the entitlement attitude that many people rejects, I said false sensation of support because if these organizations are funded by corporations who benefit from illegal labor they are just pretending to support this people but if they were really legalized they would loose their gold mine. that takes us to point 2
2 If these organizations are backed by these corporations and exist because of them, because we all know that without money their existence and influence wouldn't be possible, it is obvious that their views and objectives are influenced by their donors, whose objectives are to preserve the status quo at all costs, I believe this is perverse because these are American companies, who were able to grow and thrive in America and they should at least show some love for their country of origin, I'm not gonna condone those who leave the country seeking a better life, but I believe that the actions of these companies are much worse because it is because of them, that this issue reached a boiling point, these companies are the ones who influence the politicians to do pretty much their bidding.
3 I also believe that one of the most negative aspects of this kind of organizations is that they confuse and misinformate people about the concepts they supposedly represent, I doubt many founders and members of La Raza know what this term actually means and where did it come from, if they did I'm sure their organization would have another name, because they are supposedly against "europeans" and on favor of "natives" if they only knew...
La Raza is a concept that was created in Spain, in Spain and the countries that were once part of the spanish empire, colombus day is known as El dia de la hispanidad (Day of hispanity) or as el Dia de la raza, Dia de la raza is prefered on latinamerican countries while Dia de la hispanidad is used in Spain, in spanish speaking countries this date is viewed as the birth of a culture and a race that came out of the mixture of two worlds and this is what gave origin to the hispanic "race"
This denomination was created by the spanish ex-deputy Faustino Rodriguez San Pedro, when he was President of the Ibero-american union, which in 1913 thought about a celebration that united Spain and Iberoamerica, choosing the date of october 12th for the celebration.
How something that was supposedly a common bond between the spanish speaking countries and a festivity thought to unite the spanish speaking world became the name of an American organization that "protects" immigrants is beyond me.
The truth is that most Mexico's culture, language, traditions come from a blend of Spanish and Ancestral traditions, but Spaniards wouldn't have been able to conquer the Mexicas if they didn't have the support of tribes that were opressed by them, Modern Mexico has much more in common with Spain than it has with what was the Mexica empire.
That was the Mexica's area of influence, not all regions of Mexico were ruled by them, modern Mexico wouldn't have been possible if Spaniards didn't come here but Also it was thanks to the Viceroyalty of the New Spain (Modern Mexico) that spain became such a powerful empire on it's time, both worlds gave much to each other and this is what is celebrated on the La Raza day and this is what La Raza means.
I think it's important to make a distinction between Mexicans who love their country and live in it, work to make it better, keep it running and those Mexicans who want only to leave it, who are drawn to the material wealth and big money, welfare programs and so on in the USA and the only thing they do for Mexico is leave it.
Often the people condemning Mexico more than anyone are the illegals trying to justify living illegally in the USA. They are the ones that paint the picture of desperate starvation and terrible corruption and violence, it's their excuse for abandoning their own country.
It's that group that is into the Aztlan excuse too - they'll grab at anything to justify leaving Mexico.
That group doesn't benefit their own country, nor do they benefit ours because they also demand they have some racial right to break our laws and do as they please here because like they say, their country is too horrible for them.
Of course it isn't, most that left Mexico certainly were not starving, they were not victims of drug cartels unless they also were involved in the drug trafficking.
People can overlook the fact that there are people in Mexico who love their country very much, are working hard for it, and don't have getting to the USA as their only goal in life.
La Raza types are obviously the people who didn't want to do anything for Mexico, but they aren't in a group like La Raza because they support all the American people or immigrants from all nations. They are racist and trying to justify their one ethnic group.
Walls don't work. Chinese wall is a tourist attraction and oddity.
West Germans did not want East Germans to come in because they were
"taking Jobs ". I guess you just don't remember.
Racism was the component for the southern minded yokels, not one of Lincoln's "components". Remember that one war? You must have missed that too.
This brilliant, articulate self-educated lawyer-statesman knew what was right through intellect not ignorance.
I guess you missed that too.
What else must you be missing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear
Memo to Huckster: unlike Germany where the people on both sides of the Berlin Wall did not want it................more and more Americans do want Mexico sealed off for a multitude of reasons.
As for the 'racism' component; that is what saved what was left of Mexico from being taken by the USA, had Mx been (mostly) White----------things would have been different and our border would have touched what is now Guatemala (they booted Mexico out as well after 1821) and Belize.
I think it's important to make a distinction between Mexicans who love their country and live in it, work to make it better, keep it running and those Mexicans who want only to leave it, who are drawn to the material wealth and big money, welfare programs and so on in the USA and the only thing they do for Mexico is leave it.
Often the people condemning Mexico more than anyone are the illegals trying to justify living illegally in the USA. They are the ones that paint the picture of desperate starvation and terrible corruption and violence, it's their excuse for abandoning their own country.
It's that group that is into the Aztlan excuse too - they'll grab at anything to justify leaving Mexico.
That group doesn't benefit their own country, nor do they benefit ours because they also demand they have some racial right to break our laws and do as they please here because like they say, their country is too horrible for them.
Of course it isn't, most that left Mexico certainly were not starving, they were not victims of drug cartels unless they also were involved in the drug trafficking.
People can overlook the fact that there are people in Mexico who love their country very much, are working hard for it, and don't have getting to the USA as their only goal in life.
La Raza types are obviously the people who didn't want to do anything for Mexico, but they aren't in a group like La Raza because they support all the American people or immigrants from all nations. They are racist and trying to justify their one ethnic group.
Walls don't work. Chinese wall is a tourist attraction and oddity.
West Germans did not want East Germans to come in because they were
"taking Jobs ". I guess you just don't remember.
Racism was the component for the southern minded yokels, not one of Lincoln's "components". Remember that one war? You must have missed that too.
This brilliant, articulate self-educated lawyer-statesman knew what was right through intellect not ignorance.
I guess you missed that too.
What else must you be missing?
Physical barriers do deter illegal entry. That is one of the reasons we have walls/fences around our own homes and doors with locks on them. Sure we still have home invasions and breakins but the point is that without those doors, walls and locks those home invasions would be happening a whole lot more. Along with manpower on the border and all the other high tech bells and whistles to secure our country's borders it is a whole lot safer than without them. The walls/fences on the border also help the Border Patrol do their jobs much more efficiently.
Walls don't work. Chinese wall is a tourist attraction and oddity.
West Germans did not want East Germans to come in because they were
"taking Jobs ". I guess you just don't remember.
Racism was the component for the southern minded yokels, not one of Lincoln's "components". Remember that one war? You must have missed that too.
This brilliant, articulate self-educated lawyer-statesman knew what was right through intellect not ignorance.
I guess you missed that too.
What else must you be missing?
Try again: I am old enough to remember the Berlin Wall and that Germans on both sides were pissed about it-----------unlike our growing hostility towards the illegals attempting to cross into the USA from Mexico.
Translation: your historical knowledge is spotty----------at best.
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Whatever the outcome or opinion,
