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Old 01-09-2010, 10:44 PM
 
313 posts, read 294,807 times
Reputation: 44

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
If he was a drug dealer? The world is a better place for his death.
You make it sound like he was an innocent victim and these boys plotted and conspired to kill him. Not so.
Do I agree with their actions? Of course not. Thats why we have cops. This individual was not some nice guy hunted down and murdered. If memory serves they had several confrontations with each other the night of the killing. Further more if I recall he kept going back after them.
The bottom line is this. He was not a nice guy, he was a bad guy.
The boys actually committed a serious crime and deserve to be punished. But this guy is no maurter. I feel no sadness about his death,he was a criminal after all. Criminals have made the choice to live a risky life style rather than living within the law.
This guy with 2 small children was out cheating on his alleged wife. He ran with people known for dealing drugs. He was a bad guy.
Hey, why don't you go look up Woody Allen. He's a "bad guy" according to your standards. Go find him and bludgeon him to death. He's a "bad guy".

What about Jerry Seinfeld? He was dating a 17-year-old at middle age. Give him the Luis Ramirez treatment. He's a "bad guy".
Or Chaplin, or that 20 year old who was with 15 year old Miley Cyrus.
By your standards, it's justifiable to kill them in the most violent of ways, right?
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Old 01-09-2010, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,859,501 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by arpayaso View Post
You don't even know what the hell you're talking about. I'm in complete disgust over you defending a group of murderers.

I'm sorry, but I'm more worried about violent murderers than someone you THINK was a drug dealer. Where was this even mentioned??
Even if he was a drug dealer, it boggles the mind that you would side with people who like to kick skulls in and yell racial slurs over a someone selling pot or something.

Get a grip! "He was a bad guy". You gotta be freaking kidding me with this crap.

The worst part is youre not even sure about what you're accusing him of. You're actively TRYING to justify what those loser hicks who deserve to be wearing high heels in prison did.
He was a bad guy and I don't nor will I ever feel bad when a bad guy meets his end.
I have not defended these kids at all. As I said they deserve to be punished for what they did.
Your in complete disgust? Shrug I care? Luis was a scumbag. He was a criminal. I really don't care how many criminals are killed off. Hey I am honest about it.
Murder:Murder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
according to wiki this was more like man slaughter not Murder. I am for them receiving a manslaughter conviction.
It started out as a fight. Racially motivated for sure. They killed dear sweet Luis and that is unfortunate. But as a criminal he made the choice to live outside of society. Bad things happen to criminals every day. Now as criminals they deserve their fate as well.
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Old 01-09-2010, 10:56 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,859,501 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by arpayaso View Post
Hey, why don't you go look up Woody Allen. He's a "bad guy" according to your standards. Go find him and bludgeon him to death. He's a "bad guy".

What about Jerry Seinfeld? He was dating a 17-year-old at middle age. Give him the Luis Ramirez treatment. He's a "bad guy".
Or Chaplin, or that 20 year old who was with 15 year old Miley Cyrus.
By your standards, it's justifiable to kill them in the most violent of ways, right?
Are they criminals? Maybe I don't know.
Never said I agreed with killing him. I said I don't feel bad when scum bags meet their end. Please show me where I said the youths were justified. Never said that. I said that I didn't feel bad about it. Just as I don't feel bad about what happens to convicts in prison. They made the choice to be criminals. That means they accept their fate.
These boys if they go to jail will meet the same fate they delivered to Luis. Karma is a beotch.
If you read your posts you make Luis out to be this nice guy who fell prey to thugs plotting murder. Nice guys don't live a life of crime. Guess what Nice guys obey the law and don't select which ones don't apply to them. You know like immigration laws. Tax laws. Nice guys don't cheat on the mother of their children with 15 yearold girls.
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Old 01-09-2010, 11:49 PM
 
313 posts, read 294,807 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Are they criminals? Maybe I don't know.
Never said I agreed with killing him. I said I don't feel bad when scum bags meet their end. Please show me where I said the youths were justified. Never said that. I said that I didn't feel bad about it. Just as I don't feel bad about what happens to convicts in prison. They made the choice to be criminals. That means they accept their fate.
These boys if they go to jail will meet the same fate they delivered to Luis. Karma is a beotch.
If you read your posts you make Luis out to be this nice guy who fell prey to thugs plotting murder. Nice guys don't live a life of crime. Guess what Nice guys obey the law and don't select which ones don't apply to them. You know like immigration laws. Tax laws. Nice guys don't cheat on the mother of their children with 15 yearold girls.
Yeah, your problem is, you have more of a problem with the murdered than the murderer. Some people might see that as "bad".
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Old 01-10-2010, 02:23 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,405,058 times
Reputation: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
I'm afraid it might have had something to do with:

25 yr old man and a 15 yr old girl friend? Maybe I'm overlooking something.
If they were so concerned about the age difference, the best thing would have been to contact law enforcement and not take matters into their own hands.

Besides, the law states that statutory rape applies only when the minor and the adult are having "sexual contact". Other wise, they are not braking any laws...for God's sake, they were talking at the park!

I hope they lock all of them for a good 20 years, at least. That is what a murder sentence carries these days.
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Old 01-10-2010, 07:25 AM
 
313 posts, read 294,807 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
If they were so concerned about the age difference, the best thing would have been to contact law enforcement and not take matters into their own hands.

Besides, the law states that statutory rape applies only when the minor and the adult are having "sexual contact". Other wise, they are not braking any laws...for God's sake, they were talking at the park!

I hope they lock all of them for a good 20 years, at least. That is what a murder sentence carries these days.

That won't happen, unfortunately. Especially with these attitudes, where people go searching for reasons why this murder was justified, based on thin or lacking evidence, rather than the very plain evidence of a dead human body with a cracked skull.



The kids sure got a lot of support, even when they were cute enough to go to a Halloween party dressed up as a Border Patrol agent well after the murder. Yup, sure did us a favor. huh?
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Old 01-10-2010, 07:38 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,132,876 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
If they were so concerned about the age difference, the best thing would have been to contact law enforcement and not take matters into their own hands.

Besides, the law states that statutory rape applies only when the minor and the adult are having "sexual contact". Other wise, they are not braking any laws...for God's sake, they were talking at the park!

I hope they lock all of them for a good 20 years, at least. That is what a murder sentence carries these days.
Uh, all sources say he was having a sexual relationship with this 15 year old. Of course none of this justifies his death but as another poster said a fight broke out and it turned out very badly for Ramirez. He was also an agressor in this fight. I will leave it up to the law to decide what to do with the others involved in this fight and the depth of their guilt.
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Old 01-10-2010, 07:53 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,679,959 times
Reputation: 3010
Apparently there was enough corruption and coercion going around in the police force to vindicate and/or exonerate any criminal the police force chose. This was no simple assault, it was murder. Excuses cannot be made for the perpetrators of this crime. At this point, I think we can safely say that this crime was at least in part, racially motivated. Who really knows what part the 15 year old girl's presence played?

However, unfortunate and sad as it is, it would seem that this person played a part in his own troubled ending. Staying home rather than coming illegally to the United States would have saved this guy's life. As Mr. Miyagi said, "Best way avoid punch, no be there." Secondly, once the fighting had subsided, the guy charged the group. That is just not smart. How did he think the mob was going to react? Run away? No, with typical, idiotic mob mentality, they turned on him and beat him to death.

I have no idea what this guy's personal life was like, but he didn't deserve to be sentenced to death by a bunch of racist idiots. Yes, he put himself in a risky situation, but people put themselves at risk every day. That doesn't mean that they deserve to die.

Regardless of any other issue, this man was the victim of a hate crime and those who caused his death should be punished accordingly, not just slapped on the wrist and sent home to mommy.
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Old 01-10-2010, 09:30 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,727 posts, read 29,953,513 times
Reputation: 17613
I agree with everyone that they should be punished but I can also understand how this could have happened as I grew up in this type of environment. We used to have people come and go, pipeline workers, oil rigs etc and I've never seen anyone murdered but a heck of a lot of people getting the carp kicked out of them.
It's one of the biggest reasons why I moved as soon as I was independent.

If I was someone entering this type of environment I'd be very careful of my actions. A lot of small towns are almost tribal.
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Old 01-10-2010, 11:34 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,622,082 times
Reputation: 22152
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey cabal View Post
Yeah, I suspect the fact that the guy had a young girlfriend had something to do with it. But if instead of a Mexican it had been a 25 year old local white guy—say, a coal miner—would he have been attacked, savagely beaten by the group, and then killed by stomping on his head?

That is the problem with passionate hate. Sometimes it goes too far.
Pedophiles don't bring a lot of sympathy, that's for sure.

And we sure don't need to be importing pedophiles.
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