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Old 05-12-2010, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,866,522 times
Reputation: 6517

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Floyd View Post
So let me get try a more direct approach with you, and this topic...In your opinion, to be Mexican is to be corrupt and unwilling to assimilate? Where do you get this support? Not so much the number that are here but the amount that don't want anything to do with becoming an American. I know I am setting myself up for a lecture from you but I'll ask anyway...Is it possible that many are fleeing the poverty and corruption of Mexico and are willing to become citizens? What % are these per your sources?

I have met a lot of Mexicans here in So Cal, in my life so far, who happen to be US citizens. As far as I know...They aren't militant. They aren't organizing youth groups to eventually take over. They are working, living and playing just like the rest of us. Yes. I have met many a laborer that I might question their legality but for every one of those, I know at least one of the legal / citizen variety.
You wish to be direct? So lets be direct. This is the illegal immigration forum.
The criteria to enter this nation begins with an application process. An interview and biometrics.
Those who are here via the Southern border have neglected the above or have over stayed their legal VISA.
They at this time now do not meet the criteria to live here nor should they be granted a free pass for their willful violations.
What their situation in their country of origin is not the point nor is it a viable consideration. I was poor so I stole from my neighbor does not get me a free pass from jail.
They may be hard working but they are also criminals. Our prisons are filled with criminals. We hardly need to import more of such people.
The argument that we make it too hard for them is even less valid than the excuse they are poor.
We are a nation of laws and have a right to expect those who wish to immigrate to the USA to obey our laws of entry. It is not unreasonable to expect our Gov to enforce those laws.
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Old 05-12-2010, 04:17 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,137,470 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Floyd View Post
So let me get try a more direct approach with you, and this topic...In your opinion, to be Mexican is to be corrupt and unwilling to assimilate? Where do you get this support? Not so much the number that are here but the amount that don't want anything to do with becoming an American. I know I am setting myself up for a lecture from you but I'll ask anyway...Is it possible that many are fleeing the poverty and corruption of Mexico and are willing to become citizens? What % are these per your sources?

I have met a lot of Mexicans here in So Cal, in my life so far, who happen to be US citizens. As far as I know...They aren't militant. They aren't organizing youth groups to eventually take over. They are working, living and playing just like the rest of us. Yes. I have met many a laborer that I might question their legality but for every one of those, I know at least one of the legal / citizen variety.
No, I didn't say that being a Mexican automatically makes you corrupt. They come from a country full of corruption whereby many of their citizens accept it as a way of life and laws are to be ignored. That IMO is why so many think nothing of violating our immigration laws. Hispanic culture is very tribally ethnocentric which makes many of them unwilling to assimilate to our society and culture. Many of them are only here for the money and remain loyal to Mexico. There have been numerous links provided in here regarding this. Some desire our citizenship not because they are devoted to this country but what freebies that will come with citizenship. Why do you think so many of them were flying Mexican flags at the rallies? Many who flew our flag instead did so because they were told to.

What ethnic group comprises the most who are pro-illegal? Many of them are U.S. citizens who have turned their back on their own country in favor of their ethnic brethern here illegally. Sorry, but I have a problem with that and so should all law abiding Americans. And we should legalize millions more like them with that mindset? I don't think so.
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Old 05-12-2010, 04:38 PM
 
2,549 posts, read 2,327,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
It is not unreasonable to expect our Gov to enforce those laws.
I agree. And I understand the premise of the forum. But surely the discussion will go beyond legality and illegality. There are subtleties in this discussion that surely matter. Numbers that can be disputed. Generalizations that can be debated. Otherwise, why have a discussion at all?
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Old 05-12-2010, 04:54 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,059,913 times
Reputation: 2244
least willing to assimilate?

where do you get this garbage. studies posted here have alread blown that out of the water. they do assimilate. they do learn the language.

please explain to me why you think this...

if anything the reason people think that they dont assimilate is because of spanish signs and so forth. and those are a result of continuous wave after wave of spanish speakers. understand? the only reason there are not signs in german or italian is because those waves of immigrants stopped. spanish speaking waves havent stopped.

altho italians are fiercely proud of being italian. evidenced by the whole "guido and guidette" phenomena raging.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Being a hard worker is not the criteria for being allowed to come here it is based on our immigration laws. History has shown that they as a group are the least willing to assimilate as an ethnic group and come from a country based on corruption. Do we need more from this group based on that? I don't think so. I am sure there are many immigrants across the world that are just as hard working and more willing to assimilate.
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Old 05-12-2010, 04:57 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,059,913 times
Reputation: 2244
complete garbage!!!!

you are a lost cause with this tripe.

lets flip this a bit
black culture is very tribally ethnocentric which makes them unwilling to assimilate to our society and culture.

interesting it sounds just as ignorant and foolish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Hispanic culture is very tribally ethnocentric which makes many of them unwilling to assimilate to our society and culture. Many of them are only here for the money and remain loyal to Mexico.
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:35 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,137,470 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
complete garbage!!!!

you are a lost cause with this tripe.

lets flip this a bit
black culture is very tribally ethnocentric which makes them unwilling to assimilate to our society and culture.

interesting it sounds just as ignorant and foolish.
One man's tripe and garbage is another man's truth and fact. Blacks are not like Hispanics in that respect. They didn't come here by the millions illegally with a chip on their shoulder and a diffiance of American society and culture. Sorry, you disagree. I cannot change facts. I am not saying they are all like that but far too many are.
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:39 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,137,470 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
least willing to assimilate?

where do you get this garbage. studies posted here have alread blown that out of the water. they do assimilate. they do learn the language.

please explain to me why you think this...

if anything the reason people think that they dont assimilate is because of spanish signs and so forth. and those are a result of continuous wave after wave of spanish speakers. understand? the only reason there are not signs in german or italian is because those waves of immigrants stopped. spanish speaking waves havent stopped.

altho italians are fiercely proud of being italian. evidenced by the whole "guido and guidette" phenomena raging.
Good, I don't have to answer your question then. You answered it yourself. No other ethnic group has come here by the millions illegally for years and years and continue to come in waves and therefore colonized entire cities and neighborhoods so they don't have to assimilate. Our greedy businesses are glad to placate them in their native language for a buck so just another reason not to assimilate. See how easy that was?
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Old 05-13-2010, 09:09 AM
 
2,549 posts, read 2,327,797 times
Reputation: 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Good, I don't have to answer your question then. You answered it yourself. No other ethnic group has come here by the millions illegally for years and years and continue to come in waves and therefore colonized entire cities and neighborhoods so they don't have to assimilate. Our greedy businesses are glad to placate them in their native language for a buck so just another reason not to assimilate. See how easy that was?
CN. However valid your points are, IMO, that gets lost a bit in your condescending (a better word than smug) delivery. And before you answer this with another "so what...a fact is a fact..." response, consider the overall premise behind all this.

Legality is an aspect of morality / character. Illegal activity, otherwise known as criminal, is one gauge of character. This can definately apply to immigration and all those illegals.

Generally speaking, in discussions of these things, being civil and respectful is also a measure of character. It is also a more productive way of discussing issues and isn't that what these forums are for? And ultimately, isn't good character an aspect we'd like to think solid, law abiding Americans posess?
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Old 05-13-2010, 10:53 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,137,470 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Floyd View Post
CN. However valid your points are, IMO, that gets lost a bit in your condescending (a better word than smug) delivery. And before you answer this with another "so what...a fact is a fact..." response, consider the overall premise behind all this.

Legality is an aspect of morality / character. Illegal activity, otherwise known as criminal, is one gauge of character. This can definately apply to immigration and all those illegals.

Generally speaking, in discussions of these things, being civil and respectful is also a measure of character. It is also a more productive way of discussing issues and isn't that what these forums are for? And ultimately, isn't good character an aspect we'd like to think solid, law abiding Americans posess?
If you are implying that I have been anything but civil and respectful, you would be wrong. I find that when someone hits a nerve of truth the other side gets all defensive and starts to make such implications. It is particularly a trait of the illegal alien defenders and sympathizers and far left libs.
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Old 05-13-2010, 12:08 PM
 
2,549 posts, read 2,327,797 times
Reputation: 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
If you are implying that I have been anything but civil and respectful, you would be wrong. I find that when someone hits a nerve of truth the other side gets all defensive and starts to make such implications. It is particularly a trait of the find that when someone hits a nerve of truth the other side gets all defensive and starts to make such implications. It is particularly a trait of the illegal alien defenders and sympathizers and far left libs.
You read what you want to read. You can go back to many of your responses to me, and to some others, and see several examples of what could be construed as condescending. This is not in your statement of supposed facts but in between those statements. I think I have been relatively diplomatic in my approach to your posts. Others have not been as civilized, not that you care. I made a statement about "civil and respectful" for general discussion's sake, not for you specifically...but if the shoe fits...

I don't need to go any further than this post where you state..."I find that when someone hits a nerve of truth the other side gets all defensive and starts to make such implications." to give an example of not really addressing what I stated and coming to incomplete and inaccurate conclusions. Furthermore, at least in my case, you seem to imply that I may be part of the "the illegal alien defenders and sympathizers and far left libs." because of this alledged defensiveness. Again a bogus assumption / conclusion. Show me where I've defended illegals or even sympathized with them. And please don't assume that when I don't fully agree with you, that it somehow implies that I am a sympathizer. That would be faulty logic at best. Indeed, I have agreed with much of what you've posted. I have only questioned the validity of your "factual" assessments. Welcome to a discussion. If you just want to dictate your beliefs and not hear anything that strays from them, you are likely in the wrong place.

Last edited by Mr Floyd; 05-13-2010 at 12:18 PM..
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