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Old 01-27-2010, 05:43 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,893,897 times
Reputation: 6517

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Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
Back on topic, the whole purpose is so Haitians that are already here can help their country. What good does it do if they are incarcerated? How is that helping Haiti? I don't understand your work program. I don't consider it humane considering their circumstances. It does not make sense to spend the money on finding them and encarcerating them than to legalize them so they can help Haiti. I'm sure they are already in too much stress locating their loved ones.
Send them home to really help out in their country. After all they are Honest Hard working people right? Isn't that what Haiti needs right now? Honest (Not corrupt) Hardworking (Not lazy or uneducated) Citizens?
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Old 01-27-2010, 06:22 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,640,026 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Send them home to really help out in their country. After all they are Honest Hard working people right? Isn't that what Haiti needs right now? Honest (Not corrupt) Hardworking (Not lazy or uneducated) Citizens?
Sending those Haitians already here illegally I do have a problem with since there is essentially no Haiti at the moment. Note such a move would not preclude holding said illegal alien Haitians in detention camps here in the USA till things are better in their homeland.
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:25 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,156,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
You have some very good points Benicar. However, I still think the fault lies with us Americans and not Mexico. I have seen any programs in Mexico advising Mexicans not to immigrate illegally. Some in form of TV series, some in commercials, informative flyers, and many more like the display of crosses. The problem comes when one decides to immigrate illegally (He knows it's against the law) and upon arrival instead of turning him away or discouraging him with no hire, he is EMPLOYED by an American. What does he do? He calls up someone in his neighborhood and tells him "as soon as I get stable" you can come, there is work for the both of us". No matter what they tells us, most of us don't listen to our governent. I'm sure you understand that feeling. Someone else's experiece you personally know counts far more, than what you see on a commercial. It doesn't stop there with us...one of the craziest things I had ever seen our country do is allow illegal immigrants to purchase a home. I literally thought our governent would legalize them at some point in time. Otherwise, I could not explain it. Mexico didn't force us to give them jobs. Mexico didn't force us to give them mortgage loans. Mexico didn't force us to give them bank accounts, welfare for their children, the list goes on. Mexico did not force us to do anything. WE did it to ourselves. If we are victims, we. Are victims of our own circumstances. Our immigration laws are lax and that is our fault and noone elses. Let's be truthful here, noone forced us to do anything. Noone dumped anyone on us. To keep blaming Mexico for our own problems is a fixation and a poor attempt to scapegoat. If those illegal immigrants would have arrived and Americans would have refused to provide them with a job, the stories when calling others in Mexico would have been different and there never would have been a chain migration. The illegal immigrant would have realized he was in the wrong. Instead, he found himself working for another who broke the same laws as he did. The exception is that the entire community and it's laws and policies aided him...sanctuary cities, immigration laws never upheld, welfare, etc. All of this...Mexico had nothing to do with.

In regards to the NCLR, it's not Mexicans or Mexico who proposed to protect illegal immigrants but the children of, who feel have rights...and legally they do. So they favor and fight for legalization and organize these marches. Whether good or bad, Mexico has nothing to do with it. As I said, I don't always agree with everything but they are Americans too and as Americans, we don't always agree on everything.
The thing is that throughout your post you continue to lump and blame all of our citizens along with our government and the greedy employers by referring to us all as a collective "we" as being guilty of hiring and encouraging illegal aliens. That is where Benicar was trying to tell you is wrong with your summations. Most Americans are not guilty of anything nor do they support or encourage illegal immigration so why should they have to pay for the sins of our government and the grreedy employers?

The problem with the NCLR and such groups is they go way beyond just advocating for immigration reform. They want their ethnic brethern who broke our immigration laws to be given legalization and rewarded for breaking our immigration laws. There may be some things that need fixing in our immigration policies but what has any reform to do with an amnesty? That isn't a policy to be incorporated into our existing immigration laws. Another problem with the NCLR and their followers is that they demonize Americans who don't want yet another failed amnesty again. They get called xenophobes, racists, etc. In short they are turning their backs on their own fellow citizens for some ethnic agenda. Really who are the real racists here?
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:30 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,156,932 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
Back on topic, the whole purpose is so Haitians that are already here can help their country. What good does it do if they are incarcerated? How is that helping Haiti? I don't understand your work program. I don't consider it humane considering their circumstances. It does not make sense to spend the money on finding them and encarcerating them than to legalize them so they can help Haiti. I'm sure they are already in too much stress locating their loved ones.
But they shouldn't be helping their country by taking a job that belongs to an American and that was my point. They should remain incarcerated or detained as they are caught and put on a jail work program to support themselves until their country is stabilized enough to deport them.
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:58 AM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,206 posts, read 2,139,559 times
Reputation: 453
I haven't done the math but what about a program set up in Haiti, partially funded by America (take the monies we're already funding here for them) to rebuild their own country, hiring Haitians to do it themselves? This would rebuild their economy as well as teaching the skills necessary for developing a higher quality life. I'm sure there are things I haven't thought through, my political knowledge is limited but I'm learning.
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:02 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,412,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
The thing is that throughout your post you continue to lump and blame all of our citizens along with our government and the greedy employers by referring to us all as a collective "we" as being guilty of hiring and encouraging illegal aliens. That is where Benicar was trying to tell you is wrong with your summations. Most Americans are not guilty of anything nor do they support or encourage illegal immigration so why should they have to pay for the sins of our government and the grreedy employers.
Thank you chicagonut for making my point. If you realize what the American people are not all at fault, why are we scapegoating and blaming another country for the immigration problems we or certain Americans created for us? Now, if you took notice on my last sentence, I did say that as Americans we don't always agree on everything. So I did acknowledge that there are some Americans that didn't contribute to this problem. I didn't lump Anericans together like some like to lump Mexicans or blame Mexico for all their problems.
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:18 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,412,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
But they shouldn't be helping their country by taking a job that belongs to an American and that was my point. They should remain incarcerated or detained as they are caught and put on a jail work program to support themselves until their country is stabilized enough to deport them.
having them work is better. Think of the amount of money needed to house one inmate. It is more than many individual American salaries. While at the same time they can contribute to our economy by paying taxes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by getout View Post
I haven't done the math but what about a program set up in Haiti, partially funded by America (take the monies we're already funding here for them) to rebuild their own country, hiring Haitians to do it themselves? This would rebuild their economy as well as teaching the skills necessary for developing a higher quality life. I'm sure there are things I haven't thought through, my political knowledge is limited but I'm learning.
Which monies do you speak of? The one our government gave them is probably not enough to take care of real emergencies such as medical supplies, food and water. Much less would it be enough to fund some kind of trade school to create jobs.

Then there is the American Red Cross money that was funded for Haiti. The Red Cross has it's own bylaws and we can't govern where the money goes or what it us used for. It's a non profit organization.
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:12 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,156,932 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
Thank you chicagonut for making my point. If you realize what the American people are not all at fault, why are we scapegoating and blaming another country for the immigration problems we or certain Americans created for us? Now, if you took notice on my last sentence, I did say that as Americans we don't always agree on everything. So I did acknowledge that there are some Americans that didn't contribute to this problem. I didn't lump Anericans together like some like to lump Mexicans or blame Mexico for all their problems.
Never said that. Both governments of the USA and Mexico are to blame for this illegal immigration mess we are in. I don't lump all Mexicans together. There are three different catagories, the legal immigrant ones, the illegal ones and those of Mexican ancestry here as citizens or legal immigrants who are aiders and abettors of illegal immigration.
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:17 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,156,932 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
having them work is better. Think of the amount of money needed to house one inmate. It is more than many individual American salaries. While at the same time they can contribute to our economy by paying taxes.



Which monies do you speak of? The one our government gave them is probably not enough to take care of real emergencies such as medical supplies, food and water. Much less would it be enough to fund some kind of trade school to create jobs.

Then there is the American Red Cross money that was funded for Haiti. The Red Cross has it's own bylaws and we can't govern where the money goes or what it us used for. It's a non profit organization.
Allowing them to run free and take American jobs is not the desirable course. They are still here illegally in our country and should be detained and be on a jail work program to support themselves until their country has stabilized and they can be deported.

As for your suggestion that they should be free and take American jobs because they will contribute to our economy in the way of sales taxes, etc. If those jobs were being taken by Americans instead the same thing would be happening. The American would be supporting himself and our economy also.
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Old 03-04-2011, 11:41 AM
 
1 posts, read 671 times
Reputation: 10
The U.S is made up of immigrants...so why discriminate??????????????
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