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Old 01-17-2010, 09:14 AM
 
963 posts, read 1,372,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Here we go with the past again! I get so sick of hearing about it when it has no place in what is going on today. For one thing we are now a nation of over 300 million people with immigration laws, not like yesterday.

Perhaps you should find out why your friend is getting his application turned down. You aren't telling the whole story here. It is getting turned down for a reason. There are only so many legal immigrants we can allow in here per year based on our needs and population growth. What part of that don't you understand? I am all for refining the process so paperwork doesn't take so long but not necessarily for increasing our quotas. It has to be proven that we need these people and we still have to control the numbers so that our population growth doesn't explode.

You talk about them only coming here to work. Some do, some don't but that is beside the point. If they are taking a job from an American and not coming here legally then NO the noble picture that you paint doesn't cut it. We have no immigration policy that takes in economic refugees nor should we.
Well you have to look at the past to keep from repeating it in the future. Just because we a bigger nation, doesn't make my point moot.

He is getting turned down because he isn't skilled or anything. He meets the basic qualifications, but you have to be selected from an immigration lottery, and he just hasn't gotten selected. Why not increase the quotas? There isn't a limit on the amount of births people can in this country? What about all those "Octomom's" out there having a bunch of kids? Aren't they draining the system as well? Again, look at it from the other person's perspective. How would you feel if you were in a country that was in economic chaos with a corrupt government and there was a way for you to make money to help your family, would you not the do the same as them? This is an honest question.
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Old 01-17-2010, 09:17 AM
 
963 posts, read 1,372,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Why is your friend more deserving than the under privileged man who wants to come from TJ? I'm sure he wants to come here just as bad.
He isn't, but what makes me or you (if you were born here naturally) more deserving than either of them? We just lucked up. Again I'm not saying have an open border, but I don't see a problem with immigration if they are contributing as a whole to our country and the process was streamlined more.
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Old 01-17-2010, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,821,083 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by e2ksj3 View Post
Well you have to look at the past to keep from repeating it in the future. Just because we a bigger nation, doesn't make my point moot.

He is getting turned down because he isn't skilled or anything. He meets the basic qualifications, but you have to be selected from an immigration lottery, and he just hasn't gotten selected. Why not increase the quotas? There isn't a limit on the amount of births people can in this country? What about all those "Octomom's" out there having a bunch of kids? Aren't they draining the system as well? Again, look at it from the other person's perspective. How would you feel if you were in a country that was in economic chaos with a corrupt government and there was a way for you to make money to help your family, would you not the do the same as them? This is an honest question.
You have just described the current USA. Yet, we arenít leaving.
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Old 01-17-2010, 09:21 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,620,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e2ksj3 View Post
If it's a choice between earning more money to feed your family or waiting for the process and starving in the mean time while your application is considered, what would you choose?
Very few Mexicans and Central Americans are 'starving'...starving people are usually found in parts of Africa...and now, Haiti. Perhaps a better term would be "if you desired a better income, and a higher standard of living", etc.

It's a fair question. What would I do, if I was relatively poor, and got tired of it and wanted to improve my situation? I'd have three choices: (1) Try to improve the situation I was already in, by means of pressure on my government..(2) Apply to legally emigrate elsewhere, realizing that this MAY be more difficult in the case of some places than in others..(3) Say "To hell with it", and emigrate elsewhere illegally, realizing that in so doing, I'd then be making myself a criminal in that society, and would be ineligible for most of the benefits of its citizens.

Of course, If I REALLY lived in a ROTTEN place, I suppose I could make choices...and if 'Country A' wouldn't take me without a long hassle, perhaps 'Country B' might be an acceptable alternative...or even 'Country C'. It all depends on how determined I was.
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Old 01-17-2010, 09:24 AM
 
963 posts, read 1,372,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
You have just described the current USA. Yet, we arenít leaving.
LOL our politician's are corrupt, I'm not going to argue with you there, they but aren't on the same level of corruption as other countries. We are no where like a Sudan, where people were routinely executed for speaking out against the government.
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Old 01-17-2010, 09:26 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,156,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e2ksj3 View Post
Well you have to look at the past to keep from repeating it in the future. Just because we a bigger nation, doesn't make my point moot.

He is getting turned down because he isn't skilled or anything. He meets the basic qualifications, but you have to be selected from an immigration lottery, and he just hasn't gotten selected. Why not increase the quotas? There isn't a limit on the amount of births people can in this country? What about all those "Octomom's" out there having a bunch of kids? Aren't they draining the system as well? Again, look at it from the other person's perspective. How would you feel if you were in a country that was in economic chaos with a corrupt government and there was a way for you to make money to help your family, would you not the do the same as them? This is an honest question.
Right! We do have to look at the past to keep from repeating it. Just look what happened to the natives when the Europeans came over here and they didn't or weren't able to protect themselves. That is why we have immigration laws today!!!!! We don't want the same thing happening again.

I already told you why we don't increase our quotas and that is because we don't need any more immigrants and it has to do with population control also. I just wish the quotas we have in place were more evenly distributed among different ethnic groups. Right now the illegal Mexicans have decided they will take the bigger share of the pie.

We can do nothing about how many kids Americans decide to have but I certainly agree that they shouldn't have more kids than they can afford either. You are comparing apples to oranges here. Our right to have immigration laws and quotas and to enforce them is an entirely seperate issue. Americans having babies isn't againt the law. Illegal immigration is.

No, I would not migrate to any country illegally regardless of my circumstances. Does that answer your question? Mexicans aren't starving in Mexico for the most part. It is just that they can make more money here. Let me ask you this. Would you illegally migrate to another country knowing full well you would be stealing jobs and benefits from their citizens by doing so?
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Old 01-17-2010, 09:42 AM
 
963 posts, read 1,372,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Right! We do have to look at the past to keep from repeating it. Just look what happened to the natives when the Europeans came over here and they didn't or weren't able to protect themselves. That is why we have immigration laws today!!!!! We don't want the same thing happening again.

I already told you why we don't increase our quotas and that is because we don't need any more immigrants and it has to do with population control also. I just wish the quotas we have in place were more evenly distributed among different ethnic groups. Right now the illegal Mexicans have decided they will take the bigger share of the pie.

We can do nothing about how many kids Americans decide to have but I certainly agree that they shouldn't have more kids than they can afford either. You are comparing apples to oranges here. Our right to have immigration laws and quotas and to enforce them is an entirely seperate issue. Americans having babies isn't againt the law. Illegal immigration is.

No, I would not migrate to any country illegally regardless of my circumstances. Does that answer your question? Mexicans aren't starving in Mexico for the most part. It is just that they can make more money here. Let me ask you this. Would you illegally migrate to another country knowing full well you would be stealing jobs and benefits from their citizens by doing so?
Population control? Is it really that crowded here or just certain places that appear that way? You want to see crowded places, go to Japan. We have plenty of open space in this country, not to mention cities like Detroit, Buffalo, and Cleveland that people are fleeing and never coming back to. Why not allow more immigrants to enter through a legal process and give them incentives to start businesses in those cities. There is a ton of wasted infrastructure, why not allow people, who want to be here and make better life here help rebuild those cities through creating new small businesses?

Would I? Well, it depends. If it came down to feeding my kids and family and there were little options left, yeah I probably would. I wouldn't view it as stealing jobs, if the employer hired me. That's what I don't get about the whole immigration debate. If it's about jobs, why not just go after the employers who hire undocumented workers? If they aren't getting paid money and no services, what reason would they have to continue to be here?

Last edited by e2ksj3; 01-17-2010 at 10:00 AM..
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Old 01-17-2010, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,821,083 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by e2ksj3 View Post
LOL our politician's are corrupt, I'm not going to argue with you there, they but aren't on the same level of corruption as other countries. We are no where like a Sudan, where people were routinely executed for speaking out against the government.
You are correct. We donít execute; at least not publicly.

I realize there are many in this world enduring unfathomable hardships, and my heart aches for them. However, we are not obligated to be the savior for the entire world. We have our own problems.
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Old 01-17-2010, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
43 posts, read 33,571 times
Reputation: 46
Most white people here today are the products of legal immigrants. Germans and Irish are the biggest ethnic groups in this country, and they immigrated here when immigration laws where in place.

What happened in the past was horrible. I don't think anyone could rightly say differently. But the fact is, kicking every white person out of America is not the solution, and it would do no good. All it would do would make things complicated for other countries that don't need any more problems.
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Old 01-17-2010, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
43 posts, read 33,571 times
Reputation: 46
I wanted to add too, that if "Hispanics" want to kick white people out, then they themselves are going to have to leave, considering many of them have European heritage too. Hispanic isn't a race. Most of us have European and Native blood.
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