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Old 01-17-2010, 02:29 PM
 
Location: The Wine Country, CA
807 posts, read 1,117,357 times
Reputation: 302

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Quote:
Originally Posted by e2ksj3 View Post
Who says they don't want to learn the language? Most Latinos I know speak some English. People have to remember, picking up a second language is very difficult, especially the older you get. I don't think it's that they don't want to learn the language, as it is difficult to learn.

I don't know your situation, but I didn't have to "do" any hard work to become a citizen. I was just lucky and was born here. I'm not saying let everyone in, but why not make it easier and allow more people in who want to have a better living and who are genuinely interested in making this a better country.
Really? Then why is that so many signs, services, etc.. are in Spanish and not Chinese, Punjabi, etc.. ? Many immigrants from other countries are required to learn English in order to communicate.. Why should an exception be made for people from Mexico and other Latin American countries?

I was fortunate to be born in the U.S. but my Mother and Grandmother immigrated into the U.S. from Japan in the 1960's.. They did so LEGALLY, learned English, worked hard and became citizens..

Most people throughout the World want to make a "better living".. I also believe that the bureaucracies and red tape in our immigration system should be improved and that IF there is a shortage of SKILLED people such as Doctors in India, those folks should be allowed Visas based on need.. However, I don't believe that U.S. citizenship should be made easier in order to accomodate people that do NOT want to follow the process that is followed by MILLIONS every year.. In this economy, many of the jobs performed by Illegal Aliens could EASILY be done by U.S. Citizens and in many cases citizens are more than willing to fill those positions..
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Old 01-17-2010, 02:32 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,156,126 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbartlebee View Post
Who's saying that what the Europeans settlers did to the native inhabitants was OK? Anyway, the situation that existed back in the 1500's, 1600's, and 1700's on this continent are so dissimilar to the situation today that it's ridiculous to even try to make the comparison.

Here in the modern world in the year 2010, foreigners who want to come to the United States to work need to come here through the proper legal immigration channels. It's as simple as that. The number of legal immigrants that we let in each year is based on the needs of the United States, and not on the needs of the foreigners who want to come here. At this time, with 15 million Americans out of work, we shouldn't be increasing the number of legal immigrants that we let in.
No need for me to add anything to this. You are right on. Remember though that those with an agenda do not care about truth or facts.
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Old 01-17-2010, 02:47 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,156,126 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by e2ksj3 View Post
Population control? Is it really that crowded here or just certain places that appear that way? You want to see crowded places, go to Japan. We have plenty of open space in this country, not to mention cities like Detroit, Buffalo, and Cleveland that people are fleeing and never coming back to. Why not allow more immigrants to enter through a legal process and give them incentives to start businesses in those cities. There is a ton of wasted infrastructure, why not allow people, who want to be here and make better life here help rebuild those cities through creating new small businesses?

Would I? Well, it depends. If it came down to feeding my kids and family and there were little options left, yeah I probably would. I wouldn't view it as stealing jobs, if the employer hired me. That's what I don't get about the whole immigration debate. If it's about jobs, why not just go after the employers who hire undocumented workers? If they aren't getting paid money and no services, what reason would they have to continue to be here?
The ability to sustain a population isn't just about "space". It is about the availability of jobs, natural resources and social infrastructures also.

These unedicated peasants crossing our southern border aren't business people. You've got to be kidding me. What cities need rebuilding? I would rather see a smaller econony to fit a smaller population. Much heathier for our country in the long run.

Why are you using the "feeding my family" BS again when I already told you that for the most part these millions aren't starving nor are their families. It is just that they can make more money here.

Many employers have already been gone after and fined and jailed when caught. So what are you talking about? But leaving the illegals out of the loop of blame is ridiculous. They know they are working here illegally and stealing Americans jobs. No, they aren't the innocents here. Of course we know that the availability of jobs is what is keeping many of them here but it isn't right for the employers to hire them nor is it right for the illegals to accept them. That is why we need e-verify across the board. That way the employers wouldn't be able to hire them and the illegals wouldn't be able to take those jobs.
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Old 01-17-2010, 02:52 PM
 
963 posts, read 1,372,596 times
Reputation: 847
Quote:
Originally Posted by bipolarpunk View Post
Really? Then why is that so many signs, services, etc.. are in Spanish and not Chinese, Punjabi, etc.. ? Many immigrants from other countries are required to learn English in order to communicate.. Why should an exception be made for people from Mexico and other Latin American countries?

I was fortunate to be born in the U.S. but my Mother and Grandmother immigrated into the U.S. from Japan in the 1960's.. They did so LEGALLY, learned English, worked hard and became citizens..

Most people throughout the World want to make a "better living".. I also believe that the bureaucracies and red tape in our immigration system should be improved and that IF there is a shortage of SKILLED people such as Doctors in India, those folks should be allowed Visas based on need.. However, I don't believe that U.S. citizenship should be made easier in order to accomodate people that do NOT want to follow the process that is followed by MILLIONS every year.. In this economy, many of the jobs performed by Illegal Aliens could EASILY be done by U.S. Citizens and in many cases citizens are more than willing to fill those positions..
How is that the fault of the Latinos? Many business choose to display signs in Spanish to attract the growing Latino community. If people are against it so much, then why not contact your representative (either local, state, or national) and get them to pass an ordinance or law, prohibiting Spanish signs. I think you probably make a lot of business owners upset though.

I agree, we can't just let everyone in right now due to the economy, but why not allow more people the chance to live the American dream, especially if they are in a country like Sudan, where they constantly threaten and killed by a dictator. There are a lot of good potential talent in those third world countries. How do we know we aren't missing out on the next Bill Gates?
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Old 01-17-2010, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,212,130 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by e2ksj3 View Post
How is that the fault of the Latinos? Many business choose to display signs in Spanish to attract the growing Latino community. If people are against it so much, then why not contact your representative (either local, state, or national) and get them to pass an ordinance or law, prohibiting Spanish signs. I think you probably make a lot of business owners upset though.

I agree, we can't just let everyone in right now due to the economy, but why not allow more people the chance to live the American dream, especially if they are in a country like Sudan, where they constantly threaten and killed by a dictator. There are a lot of good potential talent in those third world countries. How do we know we aren't missing out on the next Bill Gates?
Who said anything about Latino's? A good portion of the blame goes to Illegal Immigrants.
Your just trying to play the race card............it won't work.
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,212,130 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by e2ksj3 View Post
How is that the fault of the Latinos? Many business choose to display signs in Spanish to attract the growing Latino community. If people are against it so much, then why not contact your representative (either local, state, or national) and get them to pass an ordinance or law, prohibiting Spanish signs. I think you probably make a lot of business owners upset though.

I agree, we can't just let everyone in right now due to the economy, but why not allow more people the chance to live the American dream, especially if they are in a country like Sudan, where they constantly threaten and killed by a dictator. There are a lot of good potential talent in those third world countries. How do we know we aren't missing out on the next Bill Gates?
Bill Gates didn't develope/invent anything. He stole the "Windows" idea from someone else.
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:04 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,620,778 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by e2ksj3 View Post
I agree, we can't just let everyone in right now due to the economy, but why not allow more people the chance to live the American dream, especially if they are in a country like Sudan, where they constantly threaten and killed by a dictator. There are a lot of good potential talent in those third world countries. How do we know we aren't missing out on the next Bill Gates?
We can't let everyone in now, because of the economy? Who says so? We could if we wanted to !..we could all just live in tents and carry water in buckets. We could walk instead of drive. Plenty of very wealthy people pay GOOD MONEY to 'camp out'. We could all just have a sort of 'National Camp Out'. Might not be fun...but we COULD do it, if we wanted to.

Bring in Sudanese? So what do we tell the Mexicans and Central Americans? "You guys need to wait a few years....it's the Sudanese' turn now"? I mean ,we COULD say that..it may not sound nice, but we could. On the other hand, perhaps we could just let in the 'traditional' illegals, PLUS the 'new guys'. There's room in North Dakota...right?

Missing out on the next Bill Gates? There MAY be a potential Bill Gates even now, I agree, living in a hut in the Third World....and if he comes here, we could use him, I agree. But what about the next Saddam Hussein...or the next Adolf Hitler..the next Timothy McVeigh...or the next Idi Amin? How do we let in Bill Gates, while keeping THOSE guys out?

No disrespect intended..you sound like a nice person; these are just a few questions that your post prompted in my mind.:
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:14 PM
 
963 posts, read 1,372,596 times
Reputation: 847
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
The ability to sustain a population isn't just about "space". It is about the availability of jobs, natural resources and social infrastructures also.

These unedicated peasants crossing our southern border aren't business people. You've got to be kidding me. What cities need rebuilding? I would rather see a smaller econony to fit a smaller population. Much heathier for our country in the long run.

Why are you using the "feeding my family" BS again when I already told you that for the most part these millions aren't starving nor are their families. It is just that they can make more money here.

Many employers have already been gone after and fined and jailed when caught. So what are you talking about? But leaving the illegals out of the loop of blame is ridiculous. They know they are working here illegally and stealing Americans jobs. No, they aren't the innocents here. Of course we know that the availability of jobs is what is keeping many of them here but it isn't right for the employers to hire them nor is it right for the illegals to accept them. That is why we need e-verify across the board. That way the employers wouldn't be able to hire them and the illegals wouldn't be able to take those jobs.
I was responding to your post about increasing immigrant quotas in general, not so much the "peasant" workers as you put it. I was suggesting maybe increasing the number of immigrant business owners and giving them incentives to locate and setup businesses in rust belt cities.

So you know everyone immigrants situation, okay. Well you asked me, and I gave you my answer. If it came down to my family and a desperate situation like that, and someone provided me a job to make money, I wouldn't turn it down. I wouldn't let my pride get in the way of common sense. You say you wouldn't because you have never been in that situation, but if it came down to it, I honestly believe you would do the same thing.

If the employers have been fined and jail, why are they still working here? Obviously they aren't cracking down enough on the employers.
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:19 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,584,897 times
Reputation: 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by e2ksj3 View Post
I was responding to your post about increasing immigrant quotas in general, not so much the "peasant" workers as you put it. I was suggesting maybe increasing the number of immigrant business owners and giving them incentives to locate and setup businesses in rust belt cities.

So you know everyone immigrants situation, okay. Well you asked me, and I gave you my answer. If it came down to my family and a desperate situation like that, and someone provided me a job to make money, I wouldn't turn it down. I wouldn't let my pride get in the way of common sense. You say you wouldn't because you have never been in that situation, but if it came down to it, I honestly believe you would do the same thing.

If the employers have been fined and jail, why are they still working here? Obviously they aren't cracking down enough on the employers.
The problem is that not all illegal immigrants, a lot of them, have jobs while they are here or before they come here.
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:20 PM
 
1,150 posts, read 991,599 times
Reputation: 369
Actually, if we didn't have so many illegal aliens here, perhaps we'd be able to streamline the legal immigrantion laws, and let more in.
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