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Old 01-21-2010, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,933,495 times
Reputation: 3028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
When will you accept the fact that illegal aliens are NOT citizens? Thus, we have no obligation to include them in whatever “unification” our country may need. Furthermore, I have no desire whatsoever to become united with illegal aliens. They can seek "unity" in their countries of origin. Nor will I entertain the thought of a compromise with foreign invaders. They need to return home.

Yes because that'll magically solve everything. Because if cheap labor moves south you'll automatically get a pay increase... What do you think will happen? It's pretty odd to think that the informal sector would not increase or production would simply leave at a quicker rate.

The only true way to curb "wage depression"--in quotes because those that may be affected or most likely not seeing it from illegal immigrants, but other factors...lack of education, the decline in manual labor, or outsourcing-- is to close the wage gap. Little catch 22.

Ensuring MORE legal means won't close the gap, but it will slow since now employers are not enticed to go into unregulated markets of our economy. Since that would be the only way as to have wage depression--informal sector.

There you go again, comparing “slaves” or black citizens to illegal aliens. Yes, many poor whites resented the employment of freed slaves. However, the freed slaves were entitled to gainful employment; illegal aliens are not. Apples and oranges.

Obviously you don't know how social structure works. The poor whites were led to believe they WEREN'T entitled to employment. Keeping in the context of the times...the majority of Americans felt that blacks shouldn't work.

Perhaps we need a sticky: Illegal Aliens Are NOT Citizens.

Perhaps you need to understand that poor citizens and the poor illegals are in the same boat...irrespective of documents.
As long as you remain in denial, and continue to perceive illegal aliens as being of equal status, and entitled to the same rights and privileges as citizens of this country, rational discourse is impossible.
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Old 01-21-2010, 10:30 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,112,934 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
As long as you remain in denial, and continue to perceive illegal aliens as being of equal status, and entitled to the same rights and privileges as citizens of this country, rational discourse is impossible.
Sadly, I'M not the one in denial. That's why rational discourse is impossible. Because you don't get it...you don't see the larger structures at work.
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Old 01-21-2010, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,850,489 times
Reputation: 3787
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Sadly, I'M not the one in denial. That's why rational discourse is impossible. Because you don't get it...you don't see the larger structures at work.
that1guy: looking at this de facto depression we are in, there will be no mass amnesty---------and, I am willing to bet some $$$ on it.

The Dem loss in Mass a few days ago effectively punctured their majority in the Senate hence all but scuttling any sort of CIR palatable to illegal aliens among other things, universal health care comes to mind. Come November, barring an improvement in the economy.........more Dems will lose their seats.
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Old 01-21-2010, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 19,043,069 times
Reputation: 6518
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
It is a national disgrace. That our elected reps have more empathy for haitians than our own Vets. That our elected reps waste time and struggle with deporting illegals but don't seem to care about our own vets many of whom have bled for their country. Many of whomwant nothing more than a second chance.

The Haitian gov't had to pay reparations to the French. In order to do so, they took out loans from America. Haiti has paid BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of dollars to the United States. Not to mention the US supporting undemocratically elected despots. Let's not also forget how the US helped take out Aristride (who was democratically elected). This is all in addition to reforms and policies we forced that have greated a "thriving" economy in Haiti. The earthquake is simply the straw that broke the camel's back. I'd also hardly call the United States gov't as having "more empathy for Haitians".

In addition the poverty rate of veterans is 5.9%...compared to about 10% of the population (from the census bureau stats from 2005). So while I feel that even 1% poverty is wrong for ALL people, I don't think it's fair to feel that the US gov't has more empathy for Haiti. A country, remember, that took out loans from the US to pay for French reparations (this went from the 1800s to 1947...however, due to lost money going to France...Haiti took out even more loans from the US). Haitians literally paid for their freedom from both Marianne and Uncle Sam.

1guy I like you I really do. I respect that you try to help disabled children.
But please don't compare the plight of our lost vets to that of criminals who have sacrificed nothing for this nation. They take and take and take.

I never did. I simply said that the same system is at work. I never said that illegal immigrants and vets were the same. Only that the same system that causes poverty in illegal immigrants is the same that causes it for vets.

A list of soldiers who died at my side for their Nation.
I will use their call signs. The families deserve privacy/
Anvil (black american) Multiple gunshots wounds to the chest. My best friend.
Dart (Latino) Explosive concussion. Turned his insides to gel.
Ripper (White) Fragmentation and explosive concussion. Always quiet but man when he talked it was funny.
These 3 died on the same field of battle.
Please do not compare the plight of the illegal to these men of honor, to the plight of those who came home broken.

Look, poverty is poverty. Not to mention that they, those who died, fought for a regime that frankly didn't care about them. Those who lost their lives were led to believe that America truly cared. The general population did, but not those sending them to war. It's the same hegemonic structure that created the global wealth disparity.

The military is used, at times, as a means to subjugate. This subjugation is all in the name of profits. The military industrial complex has grown so large that we need to continuously be fighting at all times...as to ensure that Raytheon and Haliburton are able to turn a healthy profit. These are the two things that those in positions of power truly care about.

So I find it funny when people decide that the best way to increase their standard of living is to attack those at a LOWER echelon than them...and not attack those that actually put them in harms way or in their original position in the first place.
The difference is:
1. Vets are us citizens thus deserve more attention than any illegal in this country.
2. Vets (servered) their country often shedding blood. This in its self rates them above any generosity we may feel towards an illegal of any kind.

No those Vets fought for their country. Not a president, not a political party. For their country. They believed in the american way. Not the way of the politician.
No sir no way no how do I accept that illegals are in the same boat.
Illegals are tresspassers. Thieves, liars by trade. Their whole life is about a self determined lie.
Vets are betrayed by a less than grateful political machine that currently is bending low to kiss the booty of the hispanic vote. Who cares about a bunch of broken soldiers right? We need to impress the hispanics and get their votes.
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Old 01-22-2010, 03:08 AM
 
Location: Earth
247 posts, read 329,795 times
Reputation: 232
Thank you, truly. But my efforts haven't gone unnoticed. I was given a couple of nice medals for bravery (my kids think that's cool). I was lucky, because I'm still here to tell the tale. Many of my buddies weren't so lucky.

I'm not struggling, per se. I have a degree in business and economics which I earned prior to enlisting in the service. My wife is a dentist with her own practice.

She does a lot of charity work donating dental care to patients that can't afford it. She also allows her patients to make payments "when they can", because her view (and mine) is that it's all about helping others whenever possible.

That's also the reason we've adopted so many special needs kids from other countries, where they were orphaned. We already had 5 of our own, then adopted 3 more. Now we have two new baby girls we've adopted. So now I am a man with 10 kids, and 5 grandkids.

My life is blessed. I feel very fortunate to have what I do, and I always give Thanks every day for those blessings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommylee963 View Post
Thank you, you have just said everything I have, its nice to know someone shares the same outlook. I asked the said thing I have highlighted in bold. For all those that say were being selfish about this. Because they can afford or are stabalized and have a guaranteed job it doesnt effect them. It effects those of us that already fight tooth and nail to get and keep what we have every day. Its selfish of them to say "bring em on in and all of you U.S. citizens stop complaining we have more than enough" no YOU have more than enough, we, the ones that struggle have almost nothing at all. Your not offering your job and house to these people, your offering ours, those of us that dont have a guaranteed job. THAT IS SELFISH. And yet everytime I ask this, they ignore it pass it by because they know its true.

I also want to applaud you and tell you I am very sorry that your efforts for this country have been without notice. Your in my prayers.
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Old 01-22-2010, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Indiana
183 posts, read 206,882 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Ho View Post
Thank you, truly. But my efforts haven't gone unnoticed. I was given a couple of nice medals for bravery (my kids think that's cool). I was lucky, because I'm still here to tell the tale. Many of my buddies weren't so lucky.

I'm not struggling, per se. I have a degree in business and economics which I earned prior to enlisting in the service. My wife is a dentist with her own practice.

She does a lot of charity work donating dental care to patients that can't afford it. She also allows her patients to make payments "when they can", because her view (and mine) is that it's all about helping others whenever possible.

That's also the reason we've adopted so many special needs kids from other countries, where they were orphaned. We already had 5 of our own, then adopted 3 more. Now we have two new baby girls we've adopted. So now I am a man with 10 kids, and 5 grandkids.

My life is blessed. I feel very fortunate to have what I do, and I always give Thanks every day for those blessings.
en our kids are grown and out on their own I want to start adopting. I have twin 4 1/2 yr old girls and then a 2 1/2 year old daughter and Im not done yet Im hopin for twin boys one day in the future. You are very blessed and I applaud you for having the heart to do all of this and still want to help. We need more people like you in this world, maybe then it truely could be a better place.
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Old 01-22-2010, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Newark, NJ
341 posts, read 577,380 times
Reputation: 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Quote:
If you are indeed en route to Haiti, I applaud your efforts. Stay safe.
My husband is El Dakar and he is on the ground in Petionville, Haiti. He asked me to submit this post on his behalf:

"I have arrived safely in this extremely devasted country to volunteer my skills; skills which are so sorely needed at this time here in this seemingly hopeless situation. A few days ago I was in the comfort of my home debating the severity of this situation. Now as I stand here and witness the devastation and suffering with my own eyes I realize that footage on the six o'clock news cannot do justice in trying to convey the seriousness of the situation. So I say to you, the posters of City Data, try to put any prejuidices and politics aside and do whatever you can to help these truly humble neighbors of ours in their time of desperate need. These people are so absolutely grateful for the support that the US has given them.

I think it is safe to say that the US is going to be on the receiving end of thousands of homeless Hatians. In painful situations, in times of natural disasters and acts of God such as these, it is incumbent upon those who are more fortunate to open their arms and to put aside politics and other controversies in favor of true selflessness. Gratitude has taken on a new meaning for me in the short time that I have been here.

If you wish to: Write your congressperson or senator and tell them it is imperative that they act fast to bring as many suffering Hatians as possible here to the US. There are thousands of orphans and millions of homeless whose lives depend on the actions of the United States."

Thank You
El Dakar
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Old 01-22-2010, 02:13 PM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,437,880 times
Reputation: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Dakar View Post
My husband is El Dakar and he is on the ground in Petionville, Haiti. He asked me to submit this post on his behalf:

"I have arrived safely in this extremely devasted country to volunteer my skills; skills which are so sorely needed at this time here in this seemingly hopeless situation. A few days ago I was in the comfort of my home debating the severity of this situation. Now as I stand here and witness the devastation and suffering with my own eyes I realize that footage on the six o'clock news cannot do justice in trying to convey the seriousness of the situation. So I say to you, the posters of City Data, try to put any prejuidices and politics aside and do whatever you can to help these truly humble neighbors of ours in their time of desperate need. These people are so absolutely grateful for the support that the US has given them.

I think it is safe to say that the US is going to be on the receiving end of thousands of homeless Hatians. In painful situations, in times of natural disasters and acts of God such as these, it is incumbent upon those who are more fortunate to open their arms and to put aside politics and other controversies in favor of true selflessness. Gratitude has taken on a new meaning for me in the short time that I have been here.

If you wish to: Write your congressperson or senator and tell them it is imperative that they act fast to bring as many suffering Hatians as possible here to the US. There are thousands of orphans and millions of homeless whose lives depend on the actions of the United States."

Thank You
El Dakar
Thank you for this post. Please let tell your husband to stay safe and to let our Haitian brothers and sisters know we WILL support them in whatever we can. I will let as many people know to write to our senators and congress.
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Old 01-22-2010, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Indiana
183 posts, read 206,882 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Dakar View Post
My husband is El Dakar and he is on the ground in Petionville, Haiti. He asked me to submit this post on his behalf:

"I have arrived safely in this extremely devasted country to volunteer my skills; skills which are so sorely needed at this time here in this seemingly hopeless situation. A few days ago I was in the comfort of my home debating the severity of this situation. Now as I stand here and witness the devastation and suffering with my own eyes I realize that footage on the six o'clock news cannot do justice in trying to convey the seriousness of the situation. So I say to you, the posters of City Data, try to put any prejuidices and politics aside and do whatever you can to help these truly humble neighbors of ours in their time of desperate need. These people are so absolutely grateful for the support that the US has given them.

I think it is safe to say that the US is going to be on the receiving end of thousands of homeless Hatians. In painful situations, in times of natural disasters and acts of God such as these, it is incumbent upon those who are more fortunate to open their arms and to put aside politics and other controversies in favor of true selflessness. Gratitude has taken on a new meaning for me in the short time that I have been here.

If you wish to: Write your congressperson or senator and tell them it is imperative that they act fast to bring as many suffering Hatians as possible here to the US. There are thousands of orphans and millions of homeless whose lives depend on the actions of the United States."

Thank You
El Dakar
oh my goodness. My heart realy does go out to them it does and Im helping best I can by donation, time helping raise money extc.. But Im sorry, we can't bring them here. Were already struggeling in this country as is and dont have the means to provide for them. The governement is offering homes and jobs that isnt technically theirs to offer. They are ours the citizens. If they come here and blend into our sociaty there goes the recession and well fall right into a depression. More citizens will be out on the streets because well lose our jobs to cheap labor and that will cause us to lose our homes. We can help them over there. Keep sending money and donations. Keep sending our nurses and doctors extc to help in their country and in helping them there that helps to rebuild it.
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Old 01-22-2010, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Earth
247 posts, read 329,795 times
Reputation: 232
@El Dakar, your husband is in our prayers. I hope he stays safe. May God bless and watch over this man for having the courage to leave his comfortable home and make this great sacrifice to help others in their time of need.

I spoke to our Pastor just last night, and from what he's telling me, a group of our church members are going over to help out. We've also donated money to the help funds. I wish I could do more, but I'm just getting used to the prosthesis (both legs) and it'll be quite some time before I'll be able to travel anywhere.
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