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Old 01-20-2010, 01:48 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotmess View Post
No I am saying the usa should allow normal middle class immigrants to immigrate provided they show they are dedicated to america.

On the other hand I was merely pointing out that on an individual level that any given person put in a situation to live in poverty in mexico that you were born into or go to usa illegally would obviously choose to be an illegal.

Although I am not really an advocate of illegal immigration as a policy what I would say is that for a long time usa let a bunch of poor people in who were illerate to basically go farm land. How are mexicans any different except that they are not from europe? Seriously answer the question, most americans and canadians ancestors came to their country as illerate folks from europe, what makes our ancestors better than mexicans?
The difference is that this is 100 years or so later. We are no longer an undeveloped nation in need of a lot of unskilled labor. We no longer are a vast open frontier with losts of space and resources. We have immigration laws in place to protect American jobs and citizens and because of the above. Surely you must realize the difference between yesterday and today? This isn't about who is better than who. It is about change and the fact that those unskilled that we do allow in should represent all humans in need, not just Mexicans. We have the most generous legal immigration policies on the face of the earth already.
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:15 PM
 
68 posts, read 72,716 times
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O please back in the 50s and 60s italians who came here with no papers and spoke no english were coming here in droves, mind you many of those italians who came here aback then are 80 y/o now and still speak no english

By virtue of the fact that illegals are getting jobs a job demand market for them exist I don't see t-rel, deshaun, and bobby and bradshaw signing up to pick berries or chop meat in a slaughterhouse.

There are lots of open lands and spaces here and normal americans don't want to move to the places that mexicans are moving to anyways.

We may have the most generous imm. policy, but look who our competition is, russia, china and italy, do you really want to live like those people do? Most of europe blocks out immigrants and I don't see how they are any better off tha america, in fact with all the illegals america has they are still light years ahead of 99% of europe
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:17 PM
 
335 posts, read 280,922 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotmess View Post
How are mexicans any different except that they are not from europe? Seriously answer the question, most americans and canadians ancestors came to their country as illerate folks from europe, what makes our ancestors better than mexicans?
Our ancestors came to this country legally. That's what made our ancestors better than today's illegal alien lawbreakers from Mexico.
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotmess View Post
O please back in the 50s and 60s italians who came here with no papers and spoke no english were coming here in droves, mind you many of those italians who came here aback then are 80 y/o now and still speak no english

By virtue of the fact that illegals are getting jobs a job demand market for them exist I don't see t-rel, deshaun, and bobby and bradshaw signing up to pick berries or chop meat in a slaughterhouse.

There are lots of open lands and spaces here and normal americans don't want to move to the places that mexicans are moving to anyways.

We may have the most generous imm. policy, but look who our competition is, russia, china and italy, do you really want to live like those people do? Most of europe blocks out immigrants and I don't see how they are any better off tha america, in fact with all the illegals america has they are still light years ahead of 99% of europe
Once again. What do we owe the illegals?
As a nation we have a right to determine our own immigration policies.
Our policies need not be fair, nor liberal. What they need to do is protect our own interests.
We do not need any more criminals. We produce enough of those on our own. Every single illegal is a criminal. You speak of normal people.
Do normal people steal another's ID? Use fraudulent documentation?
Do normal people drive without a licence? Do normal people opt to live a life of one crime after another?
Better still. Do normal people expect to be rewarded for criminal behavior?
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:25 PM
 
68 posts, read 72,716 times
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Based on today's law they basically would have all been illegals, none of them had university, none had job offers before coming here, all they required was a pulse and be disease free.

Plus don't be so sure your ancestors are legal, they may have came here illegally and could have hide it. I have relatives who did so generations back, but I doubt their children know of it.
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotmess View Post
Based on today's law they basically would have all been illegals, none of them had university, none had job offers before coming here, all they required was a pulse and be disease free.

Plus don't be so sure your ancestors are legal, they may have came here illegally and could have hide it. I have relatives who did so generations back, but I doubt their children know of it.
Maybe my ancestors robbed a few banks. So based on that its ok for me to rob banks today?
Based on todays science traveling by plane is the most safe way to travel.
200 years ago anyone would be considered insane to suggest such a thing. Shall we do away with flight?
Tell me. Do you have children? If so. If 1 uses the excuse that their sibling did the same thing the year before, would you say ok then its ok for you to do it too?
In short today is not yesterday. We have laws and have the right to enforce them.
I ask again. What do we owe illegals? Why do they rate special consideration over legal applicants?
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotmess View Post
Based on today's law they basically would have all been illegals, none of them had university, none had job offers before coming here, all they required was a pulse and be disease free.

Plus don't be so sure your ancestors are legal, they may have came here illegally and could have hide it. I have relatives who did so generations back, but I doubt their children know of it.
How difficult is it to understand our needs differ today than hundreds of years ago? Our country has already been established. Thus, we no longer need warm bodies. None of my ancestors entered this country illegally. That's a fact. However, some did enter by duress.
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:43 PM
 
335 posts, read 280,922 times
Reputation: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotmess View Post
O please back in the 50s and 60s italians who came here with no papers and spoke no english were coming here in droves, mind you many of those italians who came here aback then are 80 y/o now and still speak no english
Those Italians were not illegal aliens. Even though they might not have had "papers" when they arrived here, they still had to go through the legal immigration process once they got off the boat or plane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotmess View Post
By virtue of the fact that illegals are getting jobs a job demand market for them exist I don't see t-rel, deshaun, and bobby and bradshaw signing up to pick berries or chop meat in a slaughterhouse.
Even if we can't find Americans to do these types of jobs, that's no excuse for companies to hire illegal aliens to do them. Companies could lobby Congress to either increase the number of visas issued in certain categories of foreign workers, or create a new guest worker program for which foreigners would sign up from within their home countries.

By the way, the majority of crops that are grown in this country can now be harvested using machinery. American farmers and agricultural companies really need to modernize their methods for harvesting their crops. Having thousands of people in the fields picking fruits and vegetables by hand is no longer necessary (for the most part) here in the 21st century.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotmess View Post
There are lots of open lands and spaces here and normal americans don't want to move to the places that mexicans are moving to anyways.
Unfortunately, when illegal aliens come to this country, they don't build brand new cities in these open lands and spaces. Instead, most illegal aliens head for our mid-sized and larger cities where they think they can find work. This makes these cities even more crowded, and it makes the roads in these cities even more congested.
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:45 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotmess View Post
O please back in the 50s and 60s italians who came here with no papers and spoke no english were coming here in droves, mind you many of those italians who came here aback then are 80 y/o now and still speak no english

By virtue of the fact that illegals are getting jobs a job demand market for them exist I don't see t-rel, deshaun, and bobby and bradshaw signing up to pick berries or chop meat in a slaughterhouse.

There are lots of open lands and spaces here and normal americans don't want to move to the places that mexicans are moving to anyways.

We may have the most generous imm. policy, but look who our competition is, russia, china and italy, do you really want to live like those people do? Most of europe blocks out immigrants and I don't see how they are any better off tha america, in fact with all the illegals america has they are still light years ahead of 99% of europe
I am not Italian so why should I care? They aren't my ancestors. I am only responsible for my own behavior anyway not the behavior of my ancestors. I was born here so that makes me unquestionably a citizen of this country and that is all that matters.

No, the reason that illegals are getting jobs is because some employers want to circumvent our laws for cheaper labor. That makes both the employer and the illegals guilty of breaking our laws. There are very few jobs that Americans won't do for a fair wage and for those jobs they won't do the employer has the option of hiring legal immigrant labor. Wow, what a novel idea, right? Of course that means it will cost them more and that's why they don't do it. Guess you're ok with that though, right?

The ability to sustain a population isn't just about space. Perhaps an environmental class would help you. Sorry, I couldn't grasp what you were trying to say in your last paragraph.
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbartlebee View Post
Those Italians were not illegal aliens. Even though they might not have had "papers" when they arrived here, they still had to go through the legal immigration process once they got off the boat or plane.


Even if we can't find Americans to do these types of jobs, that's no excuse for companies to hire illegal aliens to do them. Companies could lobby Congress to either increase the number of visas issued in certain categories of foreign workers, or create a new guest worker program for which foreigners would sign up from within their home countries.

By the way, the majority of crops that are grown in this country can now be harvested using machinery. American farmers and agricultural companies really need to modernize their methods for harvesting their crops. Having thousands of people in the fields picking fruits and vegetables by hand is no longer necessary (for the most part) here in the 21st century.


Unfortunately, when illegal aliens come to this country, they don't build brand new cities in these open lands and spaces. Instead, most illegal aliens head for our mid-sized and larger cities where they think they can find work. This makes these cities even more crowded, and it makes the roads in these cities even more congested.
You people and your darn facts anyway.
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