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Old 01-25-2010, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,669,573 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Obviously, you missed the entire point of my first paragraph. So, I’ll try again. The relevance of growing up during a particular era means, unlike you, I didn’t have to rely on reading history books to understand the pulse of the nation -- its segregation, its foreign policies, etc., because I lived it. Who do you think would have a better perspective on the Vietnam War -- historians who never experienced combat, or soldiers who actually fought in the war? Furthermore, I am well-versed on the capabilities of this country -- the good, the bad, and the ultra, ultra ugly. Make no mistake. However, my views are not tainted by my recognition of the negative.

The fact is, my knowledge, or lack thereof, of ANY aspect of our country and its foreign policies, has absolutely no bearing on YOUR obvious disdain for this country. Deny it if you choose, but your posts indicate otherwise; no doubt unwittingly.

The fact that Mexico is not a first-world country does not negate its wealth. Their problem is the unequal distribution of said wealth. For the most part, you are either wealthy or dirt poor; although, the middle class has increased during recent years. No doubt some of this improvement can be attributed to the absence of 10% of its underclass, and the billions in remittances they faithfully provide. By the way, how long do you think it will take Mexico to complete its “developmental” stage? After all, they have already had hundreds of years.

Bottom line: Mexico is a sovereign nation, and should be responsible for its own citizens. They need to leave the Similac alone and advance to solid foods. In other words, Mexico needs to grow up and stop being bottle-fed by us. It’s pathetic. Why not use some of the millions of “hardworking” citizens living here illegally to help bring it into first-world status? Why not stop whining about what the evil U.S. has done, and start working to improve conditions, and thus provide decent jobs? Otherwise, Mexico will still be “developing” 200 years from now. They can only continue to use the U.S. as a scapegoat for so long. Enough already.

I fight this illegal immigration battle for many reasons. Paramount is the fact that I don’t want the U.S. to become another Mexico, with two classes – the rich and the poor. You see, our middle class is the heart of this nation; and if we continue down this massive illegal immigration road, our middle class will ultimately become extinct. We are already well on the way due to years of depressed wages facilitated by cheap illegal labor. If we lose this battle, we will lose our first-world status, and join the ranks of other “developing” nations, such as Mexico.

You are entitled to your opinion, and we will not sway you one inch. No siree. Remember though, you learn nothing when the only voice you hear is YOURS.
As you stated.

Concerning Mexico: I am afraid that nation will need to suffer a shattering disaster of some sort before it 'mans up' and starts taking care of even its own bottom feeders who are presently in the USA illegally. The growing drug wars SoB are merely a prelude to what is coming IMHO.
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Old 01-25-2010, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,832,685 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Obviously, you missed the entire point of my first paragraph. So, I’ll try again. The relevance of growing up during a particular era means, unlike you, I didn’t have to rely on reading history books to understand the pulse of the nation -- its segregation, its foreign policies, etc., because I lived it. Who do you think would have a better perspective on the Vietnam War -- historians who never experienced combat, or soldiers who actually fought in the war? Furthermore, I am well-versed on the capabilities of this country -- the good, the bad, and the ultra, ultra ugly. Make no mistake. However, my views are not tainted by my recognition of the negative.

Again, irrelevant. Actually, a historian who studies the war will have an objective point of view. Most likely the historian will have a more comprehensive understanding. A soldier will have first hand experience, but may not understand other aspects of the war (since they most likely will not delve into the history of Vietnam, etc.). This point is moot, since we are talking about illegal immigrants. You aren't an illegal immigrant. So you don't have "first hand" experience.

The fact is, my knowledge, or lack thereof, of ANY aspect of our country and its foreign policies, has absolutely no bearing on YOUR obvious disdain for this country. Deny it if you choose, but your posts indicate otherwise; no doubt unwittingly.

Disdain? Again, you don't get it. You are tainted. All I read is you simply calling people unAmerican because they are critical of certain parts of the gov't. I don't want to subscribe to the cult that you belong to. I feel that your hyper nationalistic POV is dangerous for the nation.

The fact that Mexico is not a first-world country does not negate its wealth. Their problem is the unequal distribution of said wealth. For the most part, you are either wealthy or dirt poor; although, the middle class has increased during recent years. No doubt some of this improvement can be attributed to the absence of 10% of its underclass, and the billions in remittances they faithfully provide. By the way, how long do you think it will take Mexico to complete its “developmental” stage? After all, they have already had hundreds of years.

The first sentence is simply wrong. Yes, it does. By, def. a wealthy nation IS a first world nation. It's not only "unequal distribution of wealth". It has a MUCH higher poverty rate than us. The percentage of the population who is poor is pretty large. The improvement is more due to the economic boom that the world experienced prior to 2008. Cancellation of interest payments on loans from industrialized nations, tighter restrictions on working conditions, fair trade for raw materials, among other things will help Mexico become a developed nation. Again, it's a little hard for the third world to become a developed nation (loans, unfair trade practices, political pressures).

Bottom line: Mexico is a sovereign nation, and should be responsible for its own citizens. They need to leave the Similac alone and advance to solid foods. In other words, Mexico needs to grow up and stop being bottle-fed by us. It’s pathetic. Why not use some of the millions of “hardworking” citizens living here illegally to help bring it into first-world status? Why not stop whining about what the evil U.S. has done, and start working to improve conditions, and thus provide decent jobs? Otherwise, Mexico will still be “developing” 200 years from now. They can only continue to use the U.S. as a scapegoat for so long. Enough already.

It's really scary to hear somebody simply state that a nation can all of the sudden be a part of the developed world. That all is needed is a "little hard work". If that was all that was needed, don't you think that the majority of the world would be living in first world conditions? The US continues to do some pretty bad things to the third world. Well, actually the industrialized world in general. Maybe it's time for the US to actually foster an enviroment that can allow developing nations to succeed. It's, again, scary when people don't understand the influence the US has.

I fight this illegal immigration battle for many reasons. Paramount is the fact that I don’t want the U.S. to become another Mexico, with two classes – the rich and the poor. You see, our middle class is the heart of this nation; and if we continue down this massive illegal immigration road, our middle class will ultimately become extinct. We are already well on the way due to years of depressed wages facilitated by cheap illegal labor. If we lose this battle, we will lose our first-world status, and join the ranks of other “developing” nations, such as Mexico.

What? The first sentence is flawed. You blame illegal immgirants...the poorest demographic in our nation, the one with the least amount of influence...for the weakening of the middle class? That's not true. You probably would want to focus your efforts on the rich. And I'm saying the rich as in a person who makes 300k a year...I mean the top .05% that control an increasingly disproportionate amount of money. They are the ones who you should be upset. They caused our financial crisis, they are trying to block healthcare reform. They finally overturned corporate limits of political funding. One last thing, the wage depression that you claim is more myth than reality. Don't get me wrong, it may exist...but this more likely due to competition from abroad and automation of work. If you are in a low skilled job, illegal immigrants most likely did not depress your wages.

You are entitled to your opinion, and we will not sway you one inch. No siree. Remember though, you learn nothing when the only voice you hear is YOURS.

Say the last sentence aloud in that case. Because you truly need to hear it.
As I previously mentioned, there is NOTHING anyone on this forum can tell you. End of discussion.
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Old 01-25-2010, 11:16 AM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,320,793 times
Reputation: 6451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotmess View Post
I'm not saying america deserves the thug illegals like who beat and rob people and gangbang, but to an extent when you lock out normal people from immigrating, its not unsurprising you get a bunch of people who come their illegally.

whats the pre '65 thingy?


Tell this to the MEXICAN GOVERNMENT, maybe they should care a bit more about there Citizens, and the lifestyle they live, so deplorely in mexico, should be fixed by Mexico. they know the situation within there Country and their Citizens, wanting to leave there, why don't they care more aobut there citizens, then there DRUG LORDS.
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