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Old 01-31-2010, 12:57 PM
 
2,087 posts, read 1,349,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Tell that to a cop and see how fast you wind up being cuffed and stuffed. Rule #1 with 'The Man' is not to cop a bad attitude.

Bottom line: if you are 'clean'; you have nothing to worry about

this is like arguing with a wall. Its not about being clean or not its about having rights. Understand? If police officers violate your rights you can file lawsuits against them in federal courts. Just because you have nothing to hide does not mean when they ask to search your car you say sure go ahead.

Just sad that you are willing to sit back and give up your rights.

"he who gives up liberty for security deserves neither"
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Old 01-31-2010, 12:59 PM
 
2,087 posts, read 1,349,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getout View Post
Agreed, AZBear. What's all the fuss? Show your proof of citizenship and move on! You know, like when crossing into another country. Unfortunately all conflicts have casualties, collateral damage if you will and a few ruffled feathers for being late because someone asked them to flash a document to prove they are NOT a criminal is much less damage than if this continues to get out of control. When people act irresponsibly (disregarding rules) someone has to take control of the situation.


You do realize there are already laws for that? You show a drivers license when stopped for a reason. Shall being foreign looking now be a reason?
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Old 01-31-2010, 01:00 PM
 
2,087 posts, read 1,349,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
You don't know if any of this was profiling. The Pro-Illegals said it was profiling just to cause a diversion, so that's what you believe.
Your taking sides without knowing the truth of either one of them

Profiling happens Period. You cannot deny it. If not to profile why make a new law????? immigration laws already exist remember
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Old 01-31-2010, 01:03 PM
 
2,087 posts, read 1,349,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getout View Post
I don't understand what you don't understand. I do not "know" terms like profiling, etc and really don't care about being "politically correct" as it is used all too often to muddy the waters of an issue. Who made up those terms anyway? All I know is that if no one has any thing to hide, let them prove they are not here criminally and then move on. For those who are criminals I hope we round them up as soon as possible and get them off of the system that is being drained by them. It's really as simple as that.

I took a wrong turn one time and wound up in a neighborhood that was known for drug deals, I didn't know that either. I was lost. A cop came out of nowhere and pulled me over. He was very upset and wondered why I was in that neighborhood. I told him I was lost. He checked around my car, took my info ran a check and then scolded me for being in a dangerous place and escorted me back out. I never took that wrong turn again and thank him for making sure I got out of there safely.


and you are too blind to see that a cop stopping you simply for being in a neighborhood is profiling and is illegal and he violated your rights

thanks for giving me a perfect example though
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Old 01-31-2010, 01:23 PM
 
Location: central Oregon
1,856 posts, read 2,030,719 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by organick View Post
you are comparing apples to oranges. In your case you are saying someone matches the exact description of a bank robber. Ok thats probable cause. Saying some is mexican looking is not probable cause for interrogation. Secondly you never know when your rights will be challenged. As I have stated before my right shave been challenged when I have done nothing wrong at all. That does not make it ok. If you don't stand up for your rights they will disappear. They were established to protect innocent people not criminals, don't you get that. If you just give up one right today tomorrow they will take another. SO maybe then a cop shows up at your door and says "Hey i want to search your house" are you going to let him just because you have nothing to hide? I sure hope not.

No one is arguing that illegal immigrants have the same rights as citizens but people here legally do and so do citizens have the right to not be stopped, harrassed, questioned etc for no reason other than racial profiling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by organick View Post
Way to deflect and once again ignore the articles I posted that show you racial profiling exists in LE. I would not say that at all, the reality is there is only one reason to be questioned. An actual reason to believe you have been involved in a crime. Not skin color, hair length, clothes, car etc etc.
I looked up "probable cause" and what I'm reading seems to be different from what you are saying above.
I think skin color, hair length, clothes, car, ect. fit into the 'observation' category.
*********
Most probable cause sources can be placed into four categories. These categories are:
  • Observation This is information that the officer obtains through their senses, such as sight, smell or hearing. This category is also used when an officer detects a familiar pattern of criminal activity that contains suspicious behaviors (i.e., flashing headlights, circling around a certain neighborhood.)
  • Expertise These are skills that officers are specially trained in, such as: being able to read gang graffiti and tattoos, detecting tools that are used in burglaries or knowing when certain movements or gestures indicate that a criminal activity is about to occur.
  • Information Statements provided by witnesses and victims, information provided by informants, and announcements made through police bulletins and broadcasts.
  • Circumstantial Evidence This is indirect evidence that implies that a crime has occurred but does not directly prove it.
What Is Probable Cause?
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Old 01-31-2010, 01:55 PM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,206 posts, read 2,141,172 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by organick View Post
and you are too blind to see that a cop stopping you simply for being in a neighborhood is profiling and is illegal and he violated your rights

thanks for giving me a perfect example though

So he profiled me as lost. Again, so what? It was a perfect example of making sure I was safe. This happened 30 years ago btw. I was a single white female.
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Old 02-01-2010, 07:48 AM
 
2,087 posts, read 1,349,482 times
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[quote=tulani;12694546]I looked up "probable cause" and what I'm reading seems to be different from what you are saying above.
I think skin color, hair length, clothes, car, ect. fit into the 'observation' category.
*********

Most probable cause sources can be placed into four categories. These categories are:
  • Observation This is information that the officer obtains through their senses, such as sight, smell or hearing. This category is also used when an officer detects a familiar pattern of criminal activity that contains suspicious behaviors (i.e., flashing headlights, circling around a certain neighborhood.)
quote]


Yeah observation of criminal activity. Skin, hair etc are not criminal behavior. I have first hand experience with the situation. Those things will be thrown out of court in 5 minutes
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Old 02-01-2010, 07:50 AM
 
2,087 posts, read 1,349,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getout View Post
So he profiled me as lost. Again, so what? It was a perfect example of making sure I was safe. This happened 30 years ago btw. I was a single white female.

He did not pull you over to see if you were safe he stopped you because he assummed you were there for the wrong reason. Either way the bottom line is you are willing to give up rights in the name of supposed "safety". Losing rights makes no one safe.
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,665,827 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by organick View Post
this is like arguing with a wall. Its not about being clean or not its about having rights. Understand? If police officers violate your rights you can file lawsuits against them in federal courts. Just because you have nothing to hide does not mean when they ask to search your car you say sure go ahead.

Just sad that you are willing to sit back and give up your rights.

"he who gives up liberty for security deserves neither"
Being profiled (if done politely) does not violate my rights. I have nothing to hide so what is the problem?
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:37 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,887 posts, read 30,138,774 times
Reputation: 17725
Quote:
Originally Posted by organick View Post
He did not pull you over to see if you were safe he stopped you because he assummed you were there for the wrong reason. Either way the bottom line is you are willing to give up rights in the name of supposed "safety". Losing rights makes no one safe.
I think that lil ol lady that was stuffed in the trunk of that car (on CNN now) would beg to differ with you. It was a random stop that saved her skin.
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