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Old 01-21-2010, 03:27 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,068,069 times
Reputation: 2244

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lots of people here lack those skills.
usually its evident in the inability to understand or present the burden of proof.
some people dont use reliable sources.
some posters generalize about groups. like hispanic snobs.

its not an attack. just an observation that i prefer to discuss topics with people well equipped to do so. benicar has proven to be such person.

so yes. lets let this die. and understand we are all free to respond or NOT respond to posts on a public forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by mommylee963 View Post
Ah yes because your above personal attacks? "you obviously dont have the adequate debating skills". I dont lack them I just dont deal with pettiness and hypocrites, which you are. If you preffer her for that then perhaps you should stick to debating with her and stop looking to annoy people. Again and I state stop trolling, thats exactly what your doing here.

 
Old 01-21-2010, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
any other personal attacks?
if all you can come back with is calling me a hypocrite, then yes, lets end this.
you obviously dont have the adequate debating skills.

i prefer benicar for that. she is very smart. i can take her intelligent jabs because she often has irrefutable points. (and she can take my intelligent punches as well). we debate back and forth.
but if all you can do is attack me personally and disregard the content of my posts, then just put me on your ignore list...
Thanks. And yes, it is possible to disagree without resorting to personal attacks.
 
Old 01-21-2010, 03:28 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
no, the fish i speak of are other ills that affect my community. what people speak is not one of them. and its linked to immigration, not illegal immigration. immigrants come with varying degrees of english proficiency. thats all it is.

but i must agree. you can very well think its rude; i dont. and thats a difference in opinion. i accept that.
i get where you are coming from.
for example, if im in a group of people, who all are bilingual except one person, it would be rude for us to switch into italian, essentially excluding one person.
here it matters because we are a group of individuals together. these people most likely matter to me. they are people i know.
a stranger in a store or on a train... what do they really matter to you or me for that matter?
It matters to me because it says that we are importing a lot of non-assimilating immigrants and one starts losing their sense of being at home in their own country. If I want to feel like I am living in Mexico, I will move there. I don't hear a lot of other foreign langauges being spoken here like I do Spanish.
 
Old 01-21-2010, 03:32 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,068,069 times
Reputation: 2244
im not sure what you are asking for.

the laws have been crafted so that people who do not speak perfect english are offered the same services and are not discriminated against. would that not include phone services? translated forms? court interpretors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Where is the link? The link you provided pertains to discriminatory practices, of which a business only providing an automated service in English does not qualify. The native tongue of many citizens of this country is not English or Spanish. Yet, most automated phone services do not accommodate all. Would that not be discrimination against the other languages? Again, please provide a link to the law mandating business phones to offer multiple language options.
 
Old 01-21-2010, 03:32 PM
 
Location: central Oregon
1,856 posts, read 2,025,508 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
no accomodating them can be considered discriminatory.
im not sayin i agree with it. im just saying thats whats been decided.

thats why the govt offers forms in multiple languages.
Forms... yes; however, they don't offer the multiple of choices on the phone. My local Health and Human Services office offers applications in about a dozen different languages. When I call the office I only get to choose between speaking to an English or Spanish speaker. What about all those others who can't understand either language but are getting services? Should they 'demand' press 3 or 4 or 5 for whatever their language is?
We are accommodating the Spanish speakers because THEY don't want to learn English.
 
Old 01-21-2010, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Indiana
183 posts, read 204,942 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
That is another thing that bothers me. All of a sudden jobs require Spanish. Police, fireman, teachers, etc. are required to learn Spanish and our kids are being taught Spanish in our schools sometimes against their parent's will. What's up with that if native Spanish speakers are assimilating to our language?

Im not sure if it was you or someone else that posted "proof that they are catering to illegals" I agree with that. Because there are a bunch of illegals and legals out there protesting against us, demanding we bend to their ways the government submits. Police officers I can somewhat understand right now because they are the ones arresting them and they need to know what to say to the person they are arresting so as that person doesnt come back and sue them for something petty. Its crap that we even have to deal with it to begin with, they should know our language but because they dont were being forced to it.

The point is none of us should have to learn it for any reason. It should be a choice not a requirement. I took spanish in 7th grade because I WANTED to, it was something fun to learn. My children arent at the age yet where they have to go threw all that and Im thinkful because if the requirements now still stand when they reach high school, they will have a few peeved off parents on their hands. My sister is going through it right now with my neice and nephew. I showed up at the school with her, because they didnt want to learn it and we had a big issue involving other parents that felt the same as we did over it.
 
Old 01-21-2010, 03:35 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,068,069 times
Reputation: 2244
wow!!!! even i who live in LA feel at home. this is just my opinion, but it might also have to do with comfort levels. do you not like foreign food? i can eat all kinds of food here in LA. i dont think it threatens my sense of home or identity. i think it adds to it. but thats only MY opinion.

oh and im in koreatown so i do see and hear a language other than spanish flood the street. no problem. i have even learned some.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
It matters to me because it says that we are importing a lot of non-assimilating immigrants and one starts losing their sense of being at home in their own country. If I want to feel like I am living in Mexico, I will move there. I don't hear a lot of other foreign langauges being spoken here like I do Spanish.
 
Old 01-21-2010, 03:38 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,068,069 times
Reputation: 2244
that can very well be regional.

certain DMV offices accomodate other languages. mandarin and armenian being the big ones [after english and spanish]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tulani View Post
Forms... yes; however, they don't offer the multiple of choices on the phone. My local Health and Human Services office offers applications in about a dozen different languages. When I call the office I only get to choose between speaking to an English or Spanish speaker. What about all those others who can't understand either language but are getting services? Should they 'demand' press 3 or 4 or 5 for whatever their language is?
We are accommodating the Spanish speakers because THEY don't want to learn English.
 
Old 01-21-2010, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Indiana
183 posts, read 204,942 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
lots of people here lack those skills.
usually its evident in the inability to understand or present the burden of proof.
some people dont use reliable sources.
some posters generalize about groups. like hispanic snobs.

its not an attack. just an observation that i prefer to discuss topics with people well equipped to do so. benicar has proven to be such person.

so yes. lets let this die. and understand we are all free to respond or NOT respond to posts on a public forum

Thank you for proving my point . Moving on...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tulani View Post
Forms... yes; however, they don't offer the multiple of choices on the phone. My local Health and Human Services office offers applications in about a dozen different languages. When I call the office I only get to choose between speaking to an English or Spanish speaker. What about all those others who can't understand either language but are getting services? Should they 'demand' press 3 or 4 or 5 for whatever their language is?
We are accommodating the Spanish speakers because THEY don't want to learn English.
Exactly. Well said
 
Old 01-21-2010, 03:46 PM
 
Location: central Oregon
1,856 posts, read 2,025,508 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
that can very well be regional.

certain DMV offices accomodate other languages. mandarin and armenian being the big ones [after english and spanish]
Maybe.
I've yet to see anyone confirm that by saying they get to choose between English and a language other than Spanish.
Never heard it myself, so can't really agree.
Are you talking forms or phones when you say "DMV offices"?
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