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Old 01-27-2010, 07:21 AM
 
1,150 posts, read 990,683 times
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<<The majority of illegal immigrants came in by plane with a visa which they let expire.>>

How is it then that the majority of illegal aliens are from SoB? Mexico to be specific. Very few of them come by plane.
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,247,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Glad to hear it! Next time a certain person in here claims that e-verify is not accurate enough to be usable then perhaps you could pass your opinion on to them as the rest of us have.
Certainly, as a corporate administrator of E-Verify I am able to directly see how the program works and would be happy to offer feedback on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by getout View Post
Semantics is a game used by so many who lack a true response and use it as a sidetrack. I've seen it in here so many many times. And you should get all huffy over like you said "certain laws" when it affects the country as a whole negatively, IMHO. That is what I still do not understand. Tell me, please.

What advantage has over migration of illegal immigrants given to this country? I truly am still open to hearing this yet no one has ever been able to provide the answer.
Like I've mentioned in this message board, I too am seeking solutions to the illegal immigration problem, I just don't blame the people for being opportunistic and entering illegally since it isn't effectively being enforced. I think the solution is improving background checks at the point of hire for companies to effectively determine if the applicant has the legal right to work in the US. This can be done if implemented correctly and enforced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Woah! So now those of us opposed to illegal immigration and amnesty are "hate mongers"?
Not at all. I myself am opposed to illegal immigration. I'm talking the people who put so much focus on the immigrants themselves, the Bill the Butcher types. To me it is counterproductive to get hateful and aggressive against these people. If it wasn't so acceptable to turn a blind eye and hire these people by the truckloads without correctly verifying their identity information none of these people would be here. I think Ice-T said it best "Don't hate the playa, hate the game."

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
Hate has nothing to do with. If anything, Illegals hate Americans worse.
I know many and that isn't the case at all...not sure why you'd make this assumption.
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:33 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
Actually I agree with most of your points. I was simply narrating the story. This story was really not of my liking eventhought it was based on real life situations. It had too many coincidences and I thought the ending could have been better.

Anyway, the grandmother was ill but not to the point where she could not care for him. In either case, I think of my mother and I know my mother would never have left me for that long...abandoned. I am very grateful to have a loving father who puts family first and has been at our side all of my life. That includes my mother.

As far as your comment regarding gangs, there are dysfunctional families in every country. Legal status has nothing to do with it. This family had nothing to do with gangs.

I also found very interesting that you used slavery to asimilate your point with this story.

Anyway, you are right. The majority of illegal immigrants came in by plane with a visa which they let expire.
Gangs and the other examples were mentioned, not to imply that this particular family is involved in those activities. Rather, as one of many examples of the negative aspects of illegal immigration. The point being, that both sides of an issue should be examined if a topic is being introduced to students. Otherwise, it is simply a brainwashing technique, which is wrong. Clearly, this teacher had an ulterior motive, because this story has absolutely no relevance in a Spanish “language” class.

You didn’t elaborate, so I’m not sure what was “interesting” about using slavery as an example. Aren’t we discussing info being presented to school children? Would it not be wrong to only depict a positive image of slavery, just as it’s wrong to omit the negative aspects of illegal immigration, particularly to impressionable minds? Of course, I could have used a current event as an example. But, what’s the problem?

I agree with Jayarcy. I don’t believe the majority came by plane, given that the vast majority of illegals are poor Mexican citizens. They simply crossed the border with a tourist visa and never returned.
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:36 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
Actually I agree with most of your points. I was simply narrating the story. This story was really not of my liking eventhought it was based on real life situations. It had too many coincidences and I thought the ending could have been better.

Anyway, the grandmother was ill but not to the point where she could not care for him. In either case, I think of my mother and I know my mother would never have left me for that long...abandoned. I am very grateful to have a loving father who puts family first and has been at our side all of my life. That includes my mother.

As far as your comment regarding gangs, there are dysfunctional families in every country. Legal status has nothing to do with it. This family had nothing to do with gangs.

I also found very interesting that you used slavery to asimilate your point with this story.

Anyway, you are right. The majority of illegal immigrants came in by plane with a visa which they let expire.
Apparently you didn't read the stats that Benicar provided. Only 40% of illegal aliens came with a visa and let it expire. 60% never had papers to begin with and are border jumpers from south of our border.
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:49 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
Certainly, as a corporate administrator of E-Verify I am able to directly see how the program works and would be happy to offer feedback on it.



Like I've mentioned in this message board, I too am seeking solutions to the illegal immigration problem, I just don't blame the people for being opportunistic and entering illegally since it isn't effectively being enforced. I think the solution is improving background checks at the point of hire for companies to effectively determine if the applicant has the legal right to work in the US. This can be done if implemented correctly and enforced.



Not at all. I myself am opposed to illegal immigration. I'm talking the people who put so much focus on the immigrants themselves, the Bill the Butcher types. To me it is counterproductive to get hateful and aggressive against these people. If it wasn't so acceptable to turn a blind eye and hire these people by the truckloads without correctly verifying their identity information none of these people would be here. I think Ice-T said it best "Don't hate the playa, hate the game."



I know many and that isn't the case at all...not sure why you'd make this assumption.
I disagree. The illegals are just as guilty. Just because the banker forgets to lock the vault doesn't entitle me to rob it and doesn't exclude my guilt. I don't see that we are focusing more on the illegal aliens then we are on the greedy employers and our inept government. All three have been the target of our displeasure.

How are we supposed to feel when someone breaks down our doors and sneaks into our homes and steals our possessions and takes up residence against our will? You apologists for illegal aliens always like to attach the strong word of hate to our feelings about it because hate is such a strong word and therefore demonizes our side. I feel emotion about this issue yes but hate? No, deep frustration is more like it.
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:52 AM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,206 posts, read 2,137,256 times
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You know what? If they didn't come here illegally, we wouldn't even need E-Verify.
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Old 01-27-2010, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,247,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Forty percent of 12-20+ million is indeed millions. If you don’t consider this a credible source, you can check with DHS.


U.S. Not Tracing Visa Overstays | NumbersUSA - For Lower Immigration Levels
This is an estimate, so it's really difficult to say how accurate it could be. I'd say this estimate is a good measure of how the real number of illegal immigrants is alot higher than the low-ball figure because in my experience the number of border jumpers is far higher than people overstaying their visa. From people I know it's probably closer to 80/20.
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Old 01-27-2010, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
This is an estimate, so it's really difficult to say how accurate it could be. I'd say this estimate is a good measure of how the real number of illegal immigrants is alot higher than the low-ball figure because in my experience the number of border jumpers is far higher than people overstaying their visa. From people I know it's probably closer to 80/20.
Iím not sure how they arrived at their estimates. However, even if we use your 80/20 stats, it still amounts to millions.
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:16 PM
 
Location: West Creek
1,720 posts, read 3,930,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
I don't really understand how anybody can blame the illegal immigrants for being opportunistic. They are pretty much screwed where they are, can you really blame them for taking their chance at sneaking across, getting a job and making money? I place the entire blame on us and our government for allowing it to happen. If we had better systems in place for detecting and protecting ourselves against fraud and enforcing ID verification systems like e-verify the problem would hardly exist. I would say that's probably the big difference between myself and other members of this board in regards to the issue.

Obviously the preferable method of making a living for these people is to find a way to make ends meet in their country of origin, or find a way to legally immigrate into another country. However, the people poor and starving in a 3rd world country are bigger losers than illegal immigrants who are able to make ends meet in my opinion. If they are able to successfully beat the system, good for them...and shame on us for allowing it.

The other difference in opinion between other board members and myself is in regards to legal immigration. I'm 100% for legal immigration and I'd be for expanding legal immigration...most people on here find ways to mask it but they are, in fact, pretty highly opposed to legal immigration or are ok with it, but in extremely limited numbers. In my opinion that essentially makes you anti-immigration.

one simple answer... Money!!!!

Our government will tell us that they are beefing up our borders and supposedly being more strict. but the truth of the matter is that Illegals generate more money in social security than what they abuse in social services. there fore all those buisness cats in the treasury department are loving it, that we are tearing each other appart here while they rake the dough in.
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,878,727 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by svg210 View Post
one simple answer... Money!!!!

Our government will tell us that they are beefing up our borders and supposedly being more strict. but the truth of the matter is that Illegals generate more money in social security than what they abuse in social services. there fore all those buisness cats in the treasury department are loving it, that we are tearing each other appart here while they rake the dough in.
Proof please. Some unbiased links would be nice.
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