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Old 01-29-2010, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by expect View Post
chicagonut is xenophobic... the same irrational contempt he/she has, was present when the irish migrated here.. her "problem" with spanish was in that time a "problem" people had with the irish accent.. and the irish, in order to avoid public harassment/discrimination tried very hard to suppress or get rid of their accents. its happened to the chinese, italians, germans, Indians (from india), Japanese, etc
every one of these people were blamed for one problem or the other.. they were going to ruin society, disturb the order/peace, destroy the "culture" of the united states, take jobs away from hard working americans, bankrupt the country, increase violence and so forth.
today Spanish is the language that's going to "overtake" English.. omg its everywhere! why wont they speak our language?
in the early parts of the last century, it was German.. the influx of German immigrants and their children led to bilingual curriculum in schools.. "why wont they learn our language? English is going to go extinct! fear!" *gasp*
Basically what is being said now about Mexicans (and other hispanics) was said about every.single.incoming.immigrant.group.in.the.histo ry.of.this.country.
get over it.gl
Being against illegal immigration is not xenophobic.

That stated: I would rather see our immigration laws reformed to favor immigration from English speaking nations (including the Philippines) since they as a group tend to have cultures closer to our WASP dominant one.

 
Old 01-29-2010, 01:39 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by expect View Post
chicagonut is xenophobic... the same irrational contempt he/she has, was present when the irish migrated here.. her "problem" with spanish was in that time a "problem" people had with the irish accent.. and the irish, in order to avoid public harassment/discrimination tried very hard to suppress or get rid of their accents. its happened to the chinese, italians, germans, Indians (from india), Japanese, etc
every one of these people were blamed for one problem or the other.. they were going to ruin society, disturb the order/peace, destroy the "culture" of the united states, take jobs away from hard working americans, bankrupt the country, increase violence and so forth.
today Spanish is the language that's going to "overtake" English.. omg its everywhere! why wont they speak our language?
in the early parts of the last century, it was German.. the influx of German immigrants and their children led to bilingual curriculum in schools.. "why wont they learn our language? English is going to go extinct! fear!" *gasp*
Basically what is being said now about Mexicans (and other hispanics) was said about every.single.incoming.immigrant.group.in.the.histo ry.of.this.country.
get over it.gl
\
While a case could be made that ALL of what you say, above, is true...(i.e., all these things DID happen; all these things WERE said; and all these groups WERE given the 'cold shoulder' for a time), you're leaving out a lot of OTHER facts.

The fact is, that these 'earlier' groups, feared and disparaged as they were, arrived into a society in which the basic unwritten rule was. "sink or swim....get with the program, or be forever left out....assimilate, or be sidelined". That was the 'welcome' extended to these earlier immigrants. They ALSO arrived into a society where any "dummy' with a strong back had a BETTER than even chance of finding work, and supporting a family...(No English was neccessary...no education..nothing but a willingness to take abuse and work hard)....ON HIS OWN..with no social support, no government 'programs', and no safety net if, for some reason, he couldn't 'make it'. That was the 'social contract' of an earlier time..."come here, if you want; but if you do, don't expect any help from anyone. We offer freedom; the rest is up to you. And if you want to be 'part of us', you'll have to drop your foreign ways and assimilate. It's your choice; it's up to you. Sink or swim; work or go hungry".

Today, we don't do that. We couldn't, even if we...(and the immigrants) wanted to. We no longer have work for millions of 'the uneducated'. We no longer leave people to 'sink or swim' on their own merits...and we no longer ask..(or even expect) people to make an effort to assimilate..if they do so, it's on their own volition; if not, that's OK, too, we figure. We don't let people go hungry; we don't let kids work to support the family; we don't let kids miss out on an education, even POOR immigrant kids. We just don't do that any more...like it or not.

So you can compare earlier waves of immigrants with the current ones if you want; just realize that in many ways, what happened 'then' is not relevant to what's happening now. I could list DOZENS of things that made 'perfect sense' 100 years ago, that don't make any sense at all today.

As for the matter of illegals, you'll note I haven't even touched on that. Immigration is different NOW than it was earlier, largely because our society...and our needs...and our ability to absorb them...is different NOW, than it was long ago.

Not that you don't have some valid points...it's just that to be fair, you must put them in context. Even illegal immigration, a few decades ago, wasn't much of a problem; in fact it was quite well tolerated. Today? Things have changed...MANY things...and that's putting it mildly.

Last edited by macmeal; 01-29-2010 at 01:48 PM..
 
Old 01-29-2010, 02:45 PM
 
1,807 posts, read 2,790,445 times
Reputation: 1228
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Being against illegal immigration is not xenophobic.

That stated: I would rather see our immigration laws reformed to favor immigration from English speaking nations (including the Philippines) since they as a group tend to have cultures closer to our WASP dominant one.
getting upset and ranting about hearing people speak spanish, which they are 100% in their right to do so, and then saying spanish will overtake english and whining about how it bothers you to hear people speaking other languages in public, demanding that they speak only english is xenophobia.

and LMAO@ philipinos having anything in common with "white culture"... you cannot be serious. they dont have much in common with other asians, let alone "wasp culture"... the fact that they speak english means as little as indians speaking english. i bet you think they have a lot in common with your "culture" too right? because christianity is similar to hinduism and "american" cuisine is as good or similar to indian cuisine lol what a jokegl
 
Old 01-29-2010, 03:12 PM
 
1,807 posts, read 2,790,445 times
Reputation: 1228
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
The fact is, that these 'earlier' groups, feared and disparaged as they were, arrived into a society in which the basic unwritten rule was. "sink or swim....get with the program, or be forever left out....assimilate, or be sidelined". That was the 'welcome' extended to these earlier immigrants.
not true. the jewish immigrants arriving in new york city did little to assimilate. they tended for the most part to live in the same part of manhattan, they mainly worked and shopped at other jewish establishments. that is why there were/are "italian" parts of the city, jewish, irish, etc. and now dominican, puerto rican, and so on. even in queens which is the most diverse of the 5 boroughs, there are sections where there is a predominant group of people.. i.e black/african and caribbeans in jamaica, jewish in forest hills, a lot of asians in woodside and so forth. this happens because new immigrants in particular feel more comfortable being around people who speak their language. it happened 150 yrs ago, and it happens now. they faced discrimination because they were different... people are afraid of different, foreign things. thats why the irish were "stupid dirty and lazy".. because they were different.


Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Today, we don't do that. We couldn't, even if we...(and the immigrants) wanted to. We no longer have work for millions of 'the uneducated'. We no longer leave people to 'sink or swim' on their own merits...and we no longer ask..(or even expect) people to make an effort to assimilate..if they do so, it's on their own volition; if not, that's OK, too, we figure. We don't let people go hungry; we don't let kids work to support the family; we don't let kids miss out on an education, even POOR immigrant kids. We just don't do that any more...like it or not.
do not disagree with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
So you can compare earlier waves of immigrants with the current ones if you want; just realize that in many ways, what happened 'then' is not relevant to what's happening now. I could list DOZENS of things that made 'perfect sense' 100 years ago, that don't make any sense at all today.
the comparisons i make from then and now are more along the lines of the contempt and animosity people have to things such as hearing spanish or other languages spoken in public.. or claiming that one culture is going to become greater than whatever they think "American" culture is. that is what happened to the previous immigrant groups and still happens today. (i dont and havent "defended" illegal immigration once on this forum.)

additionally, i'd like to ask what would it take for someone from say, India to "assimilate" into this country? (not including learning to speak english)
wearing a red sox hat instead of their turban if they're punjab? if they don't, is that "arrogance" on their part for dressing so weird? what does an "American" dress like? what does an "American" look like? talk like?
does it mean this person has to go watch harry potter and stop watching bollywood movies? listen to lynyrd skynyrd and not bhangra music? eat macaroni and cheese and hot pockets instead of indian food? what is it?
 
Old 01-29-2010, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by ♥♥PRINC3Ss♥♥ View Post
That's the term that some people use, use the term of your choice. I don't like to get into terminology debates because that's not the subject here. I'm talking about people who were born here from illegal and legal parents.

Immigrant generations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then many of those people will move to more tolerant places in the USA and the rest will get used to the racial profiling or occasional beating. I can assure you cities like LA, NYC and Miami will not have this problem in your or my lifetime. Even though I don't look hispanic I have an accent as I learned English as a second language. That is the reason why I would never EVER consider living in other places except for those 3 cities. I always tell my friends that if I ever get lost in one of those racists towns I'll pretend I'm speech impaired or fake a British accent.
Oh so you are referring to second generation criminals. I guess another way to put it is Family tradition?
Of course you understand that by lumping illegals with honest legal immigrants you are insulting the honest folks.
One is not the same as the other nor are they comparable.
 
Old 01-29-2010, 04:26 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by expect View Post
chicagonut is xenophobic... the same irrational contempt he/she has, was present when the irish migrated here.. her "problem" with spanish was in that time a "problem" people had with the irish accent.. and the irish, in order to avoid public harassment/discrimination tried very hard to suppress or get rid of their accents. its happened to the chinese, italians, germans, Indians (from india), Japanese, etc
every one of these people were blamed for one problem or the other.. they were going to ruin society, disturb the order/peace, destroy the "culture" of the united states, take jobs away from hard working americans, bankrupt the country, increase violence and so forth.
today Spanish is the language that's going to "overtake" English.. omg its everywhere! why wont they speak our language?
in the early parts of the last century, it was German.. the influx of German immigrants and their children led to bilingual curriculum in schools.. "why wont they learn our language? English is going to go extinct! fear!" *gasp*
Basically what is being said now about Mexicans (and other hispanics) was said about every.single.incoming.immigrant.group.in.the.histo ry.of.this.country.
get over it.gl
Me xenophobic? lol! Xenophobia means a fear of strangers. We have been a diverse nation since its founding so how can any American be xenophobic? This is about non-assimilating Spanish speakers that has gone on for generations and the high influx of illegal aliens from Spanish speaking countries. You are comparing apples to oranges here comparing this to the past as most people came here legally then and assimilated quite fast. Not so with Spanish speakers. Add to that they have taken over entire small and large cities in this country and you have a recipe for colonization rather than assimilation.
 
Old 01-29-2010, 04:35 PM
 
Location: NW United States
3 posts, read 2,650 times
Reputation: 10
It's considered "Politically Correct" in the United States to take a back seat to anyone or any group who wants to kick us in the teeth and abuse our laws and traditions. Let us not forget, we have the ACLU and those of their ilk to thank for the mess.

The new Administration running our country is not going to make it any easier!
 
Old 01-29-2010, 04:39 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by expect View Post
getting upset and ranting about hearing people speak spanish, which they are 100% in their right to do so, and then saying spanish will overtake english and whining about how it bothers you to hear people speaking other languages in public, demanding that they speak only english is xenophobia.

and LMAO@ philipinos having anything in common with "white culture"... you cannot be serious. they dont have much in common with other asians, let alone "wasp culture"... the fact that they speak english means as little as indians speaking english. i bet you think they have a lot in common with your "culture" too right? because christianity is similar to hinduism and "american" cuisine is as good or similar to indian cuisine lol what a jokegl
Again, you don't even know the meaning of xenophobic. It is a fear of strangers. We have "strangers" coming our way every day via legal immigration and have had since our country's founding. So no, there is no fear of strangers. I never said they didn't have a "right" to speak a foreign language I am just saying that I personally think is is rude when they know how to speak English and shows they have no intention of assimilating in our country. No one is making any demands. I am just expressing my opinion. We are hearing Spanish more than anything because Hispanics here legally are not assimilating like the first immigrants did in the same timeframe and because of the large influx of illegal aliens mostly from Mexico and other Spanish speaking countries. How do you expect us to feel with this going on?

As for Filapinos, I have found them not to be so arrogant about their language usage. Sure I would occasionlly hear them speak the different dialects of their language (I use to work with many) but for the most part they would speak English around their co-workers. I doubt many of them are here illegally either.

Another difference between yesterday and today is that yesterday's immigrants came from many nations and ethnic groups so it was easier for them to assimilate. Not so today! Most of the immigrants both legal and illegal are coming from mostly one country and one ethnic group. As I said it is a recipe for colonization rather than assimilation.

Last edited by chicagonut; 01-29-2010 at 04:54 PM..
 
Old 01-29-2010, 04:50 PM
 
Location: NW United States
3 posts, read 2,650 times
Reputation: 10
I will say one thing, not all Mexicans are illegal and not all are lazy and trying to live off the taxpayers. We have a neighbor across the road, they are Mexican the husband is a cabinet maker, the wife is a housewife. They have four well behaved children.

Their yard is beautiful and well maintained, as is their home. Their home and property is in better shape than some caucasions, I'm caucasion and I'm embarrassed to admit their place looks better than ours, abeit our place is not an eyesore. The husband has come over and helped me do things that I can't do.
 
Old 01-29-2010, 05:09 PM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,206 posts, read 2,137,548 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by smooth7 View Post
I will say one thing, not all Mexicans are illegal and not all are lazy and trying to live off the taxpayers. We have a neighbor across the road, they are Mexican the husband is a cabinet maker, the wife is a housewife. They have four well behaved children.

Their yard is beautiful and well maintained, as is their home. Their home and property is in better shape than some caucasions, I'm caucasion and I'm embarrassed to admit their place looks better than ours, abeit our place is not an eyesore. The husband has come over and helped me do things that I can't do.
It saddens me when I read something like this as it is clear many think being against illegal immigration equates being racist, or it being reduced as the average thinking of anti illegals. I believe that MASS migration of this culture has embittered some who perhaps had never even discussed anyone/thing "Mexican" before but now sees in magnanimous proportions a forced change to the American culture and economics, which angers them...just a thought.

With that said- I got a white guy across the way who has a perfectly manicured yard, his wife remodels the bathroom, raised great kids, so what is your point? It's not about race.
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