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Old 01-27-2010, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,822,205 times
Reputation: 3028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by borderlord View Post
" it's possible that "our" disenchantment and disapointment may turn into something worse."

I often wonder just what that "something worse" would be. Would it be the response from the American people or the response from our own government in response to the actions of some "fringe" element in our society ?

Things seem to be falling into place for both sides....

Scary
I wonder the same. In any case, as you said, it will be scary.

 
Old 01-27-2010, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,640,026 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by borderlord View Post
" it's possible that "our" disenchantment and disapointment may turn into something worse."

I often wonder just what that "something worse" would be. Would it be the response from the American people or the response from our own government in response to the actions of some "fringe" element in our society ?

Things seem to be falling into place for both sides....

Scary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I have a bad feeling that this is inevitable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
True, in the past...but not neccessarily so today. "No country would welcome invaders", you say? Never in the past, maybe...but so what? I could just as easily make the statement "Cultures, by definition, hold their own values superior to the values of OTHER cultures; NO culture holds that 'other cultures' are just as good as IT....and NO culture seeks to share influence with other cultures; cutures, by definition, promote THEMSELVES, not 'outsiders' "...Yet today, our society has adopted 'multiculturalism', and has rendered my above statement untrue. What once was true, may no longer be.

Whereas "no country, IN THE PAST, has welcomed an invasion", it's quite apparent that THIS country, today, is doing exactly that; and if TEN PERCENT of one large country moving into ANOTHER large country, (many of them doing so illegally), doesn't fit your definition of an 'invasion', it certainly comprises something pretty close to it....and, I dare say, something pretty much unprecedented in history, EXCEPT in cases of WAR. (SO FAR, our illegal 'invasion' hasn't turned violent...but again, the key word is 'so far').

So you say 'invasion' isn't the correct term for what's going on? OK, I feel better now...it's not an invasion.

As for the matter of 'disenchanted Americans', spewing anger because they're mad at 'our government'? That's an easy one....people are simply realizing that there's a HUGE building groundswell against illegal immigration, and since "our government" (which has accomplished HUGE things in the recent past, and could obviously 'do something' about illegals if it wanted to) seems uninterested in (or unwilling to) "do anything about it", the uneasy conclusion is that perhaps the reason for this discrepancy is that "our government", in actual fact, is no longer really "ours", except on paper. That's a bitter pill to swallow, particularly among a population that's traditionally felt we, the people, "are" the government.... and as this fact becomes better understood, and begins to 'sink in', it's possible that "our" disenchantment and disapointment may turn into something worse.

Let's hold our breaths, and hope that doesn't happen.
I have a sneaking premonition that cooler heads will prevail--------by really starting to roust illegals everywhere (they way we are here in Arizona and Oklahoma); the 'grass roots' anger will subside.

Although; I DO have a strong feeling that hostility against stereotypical Spanish speaking Hispanics (and other folks who resemble them) will increase to the point that many Latinos will avoid speaking speaking that language except out of necessity.

Otherwise: what happened to that illegal alien in Shenandoah, Pa will merely be the prelude to strife rivaling the Civil Right Movement where there are large numbers of lower class Spanish speakers (illegal or legal).
 
Old 01-27-2010, 09:42 PM
 
1,807 posts, read 2,792,760 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bambam0084 View Post
oops.. your quotes dont show up. many things are to blame for those things you quoted however, from illegal immigration to crappy immigration policies and crappier border control and patrol. also, the 10% and rising unemployment is hardly the fault of illegal immigrants. how about we send the army to fight off the scumbags that caused this entire mess?
 
Old 01-27-2010, 09:54 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,621,702 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by borderlord View Post
" it's possible that "our" disenchantment and disapointment may turn into something worse."

I often wonder just what that "something worse" would be. Would it be the response from the American people or the response from our own government in response to the actions of some "fringe" element in our society ?

Things seem to be falling into place for both sides....

Scary
In a 'worst case scenario', I suppose it could go like this....some 'disenchanted local' nutcase finally loses his cool.....violently harms a group of people he THINKS 'may' be illegals...(whether they actually are, or not); this in turn leads to 'counter attacks' by illegal supporters; a nasty ethnic squabble takes shape....and in the end, ALL OF US ask our government to 'do something' to stop the madness. The remedy? Tighter regulations on all of us, a general 'clamping down', and a loss of freedoms for all of society, in the name of 'keeping the peace'.

Government can do great things when it comes to building freeways, fighting wars, or regulating commerce....but it's usually been a dismal failure when it attempts to 'make us behave ourselves'. Government can't reduce the anger and tensions in a society, it can only contain them by force. Anger and tension is caused when government no longer responds to the will of the 'governed'. Eventually, confidence in government is replaced by hopelessness...and when that stage is reached, the only remedy is force.

It's happened before, in many societies. Let's hope it never happens here.
 
Old 01-27-2010, 10:01 PM
 
1,807 posts, read 2,792,760 times
Reputation: 1228
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
True, in the past...but not neccessarily so today. "No country would welcome invaders", you say? Never in the past, maybe...but so what?
no country would welcome invaders TODAY either, invaders according to the definition of the word. if india invaded pakistan, what do you think the response would be? if north korea invaded south korea, russia and georgia, colombia and venezuela, the US and (insert country here), any middle eastern country and isreal? on an even smaller scale, someone going into your house at 2AM, someone going into a bank after hours... you see where im going.. those are real invasions. what we're experiencing is something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I could just as easily make the statement "Cultures, by definition, hold their own values superior to the values of OTHER cultures; NO culture holds that 'other cultures' are just as good as IT....and NO culture seeks to share influence with other cultures; cutures, by definition, promote THEMSELVES, not 'outsiders' "...Yet today, our society has adopted 'multiculturalism', and has rendered my above statement untrue. What once was true, may no longer be.
i dont see the correlation... would u argue that multiculturalism is a bad thing, that it has had an adverse effect on the U.S? in the greater picture, i would argue otherwise, especially from my experience living in silicon valley and studying/working with people from different cultural/ethnic backgrounds. there is no such thing as a "good" invasion for the country or people being invaded (aside from normandy, which at that point it was occupied by germany). while there can be good and bad aspects to different cultures and being exposed to them (like the adverse affect US culture had on the bahamas, especially on young people of the island), there are almost always positives.


Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
As for the matter of 'disenchanted Americans', spewing anger because they're mad at 'our government'? That's an easy one....people are simply realizing that there's a HUGE building groundswell against illegal immigration, and since "our government" (which has accomplished HUGE things in the recent past, and could obviously 'do something' about illegals if it wanted to) seems uninterested in (or unwilling to) "do anything about it", the uneasy conclusion is that perhaps the reason for this discrepancy is that "our government", in actual fact, is no longer really "ours", except on paper. That's a bitter pill to swallow, particularly among a population that's traditionally felt we, the people, "are" the government.... and as this fact becomes better understood, and begins to 'sink in', it's possible that "our" disenchantment and disapointment may turn into something worse.
.
i hope you're not insinuating that the government is somehow being run by some sort of cabal designed to destroy the country as we know it and turn it over to illegal immigrants. i've no time for conspiracy theories. but i do agree that they're not doing what they should be doing. i by no means think illegal immigration is a good thing, or that it should be encouraged etc. in my opinion , there are much more pressing issues at hand. the economy for starters.. the national deficit is at 11.4trillion and counting (it scares me a whole lot more than illegals do).. the devaluation of our currency. this is what really scares the crap out of me, and will have effects worldwide, not just domestically.
 
Old 01-27-2010, 10:41 PM
 
2,930 posts, read 6,030,754 times
Reputation: 1375
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post

Although; I DO have a strong feeling that hostility against stereotypical Spanish speaking Hispanics (and other folks who resemble them) will increase to the point that many Latinos will avoid speaking speaking that language except out of necessity.

In your dreams. I couldn't care less what some narrow minded person stereotypes me as.
 
Old 01-27-2010, 10:44 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,453,647 times
Reputation: 47456
same as the BP shopping for nails at home depot
don't look dont tell.
 
Old 01-27-2010, 11:38 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,691 posts, read 86,859,041 times
Reputation: 29355
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Dictionary.com

Invasion: infringement by intrusion.

It doesn't necessarily have to be a military invasion.
If it's not a military invasion, then we don't need a military response.
 
Old 01-27-2010, 11:50 PM
 
Location: Texas
470 posts, read 508,426 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by expect View Post
oops.. your quotes dont show up. many things are to blame for those things you quoted however, from illegal immigration to crappy immigration policies and crappier border control and patrol. also, the 10% and rising unemployment is hardly the fault of illegal immigrants. how about we send the army to fight off the scumbags that caused this entire mess?


Hmmmm...

!!!
 
Old 01-28-2010, 12:13 AM
 
1,807 posts, read 2,792,760 times
Reputation: 1228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
If it's not a military invasion, then we don't need a military response.
hahaa nice
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