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Old 02-03-2010, 07:58 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Actually; I suspect that our Hispanic population is dropping with so many of them returning to Mexico, etc. between our bum economy is growing enforcement of our immigration laws. Too; quite a few Mexicans here legally (green card holders) have left due to no work here.
It's not dropping where I am, it might be dropping somewhat in Arizona now, but what many do is just leave one area and go someplace else in the USA. Especially if they're getting any kind of food stamps, WIC, Medicaid - and if they intentionally gave birth to an anchor baby here, they came not to work but to live their lives on welfare handouts and they're staying.

 
Old 02-03-2010, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
The bureau does not ask about legal status so its numbers are intended to include everyone.

if the census bureau doesnt ask legal status, how can anyone make a determination as to what the true numbers are. Its all a big guess...Nothing more.
Yes, the actual numbers are no doubt much higher than estimated. By any estimation, illegal aliens are costing taxpayers billions annually.

Quote:
A recent patient survey indicated that 70 percent of the women who gave birth at Parkland in the first three months of 2006 were illegal immigrants, hospital officials said.

These Hispanic women had been having their babies at Parkland without much attention until the recent debate over illegal immigration. Critics have questioned the ease with which illegal immigrants are delivering their babies at U.S. hospitals – at taxpayers' expense.
News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Breaking News for Dallas-Fort Worth | Dallas Morning News (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/061206dnmetmoms.d9b9669.html - broken link)

Quote:
CBS) It was 5 a.m. and CBS News national correspondent Byron Pitts is with a woman who is nine months pregnant. She's rushed to a south Texas hospital to undergo a C-section - a $4,700 medical procedure that won't cost her a dime. She qualifies for emergency Medicaid.

Eliot is one of an estimated 300,000 children of illegal immigrants born in the United States every year, according to the Pew Hispanic Center. They're given instant citizenship because they are born on U.S. soil, which makes it easier for their parents to become U.S. citizens.

Back in December, when she was six months pregnant, Fabiola, her husband and their two daughters - ages 4 and 11 - crossed the Rio Grande from Mexico into the U.S.

Once on the other side of the river they walked for two hours in search of a better life and free medical care for their unborn child.
Illegal Immigrant Births - At Your Expense - CBS Evening News - CBS News

Quote:
The vast majority of government-money spent on emergency care for illegal immigrants is used to pay for childbirth and pregnancy related complications for women without insurance. Researchers in North Carolina evaluated the state spending on Medicaid for the years 2001 to 2004.

Just over 95 percent of all Emergency Medicaid patients were women, 89 percent were between 18 and 40 years old and 93 percent were Hispanic. Over 99 percent of the patients were “undocumented immigrants”. The federal General Accounting Office (GAO) reports that states with high immigration rates, such as North Carolina, have seen a rapid rise in Emergency Medicaid costs.
Illegal Immigrant Births Top List For Emergency Medicaid Health Care Spending – Immigration - 1 Percent Of Medicaid Budget | Best Syndication

Quote:
State welfare officials estimate that cutting off payments to illegal immigrants for their U.S.-born children could save about $640 million annually if it survives legal challenges.
Deficit may trigger anti-illegal immigration ballot measure - Los Angeles Times

Quote:
Sep. 19--Oklahoma will spend about $9.6 million of its $3.1 billion of Medicaid money on illegal immigrants this fiscal year, but it's authorized, an agency spokesman said Monday. At least 83 percent of the $9.6 million will pay for childbirth costs for illegal immigrant women, said Nico Gomez, spokesman for the Oklahoma Health Care Authority.
Illegal immigrant birth costs reported: State says estimate applies as authorized in Medicaid. - Daily Oklahoman (Oklahoma City, OK) | Encyclopedia.com (http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-151601459.html - broken link)
 
Old 02-03-2010, 11:55 AM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,068,069 times
Reputation: 2244
the allegations that more immigrants came illegally than legally do no support the assertion that the soar in US hispanic population is due to this increase.

lets get the number of latino/hispanic population in the states, then compare that to numbers (contested/not validated by the gov't) and compare the percentage that that makes up of the larger population.

so lets see. latinos in 2000 made up slighlty more than 35 million people in the US, according to the Census (since that is our barometer).
in 2007, the latest year the census tracked hispanics, the number was close to 45 million. so thats aprox. a 10 million person increase (1.4 million per year).
and the article cited earlier said that about .5 million illegals came from 2000 to 2004 (each year). thats 2 million people. whats the accepted rate of illegals being hispanic? 80%, so thats about1.6 million people in that 4 year stretch.

aprox 1.6 million hispanic illegals coming from 2000-04. compared to 5.6 million in the same years- which is the total increase in population according to the census.

1.6 compared to the 5.6? that doesnt seem to be a majority.

which im sure you guys will now attribute the remainder/discrepancy to children born of illegals, (what are they called t*r babies, sug*r babies, anch*r babies?)

so you guys mean to tell me that those 1.6 million illegals had 1.3 illegal babies (which would put the number of illegals and their babies at 2.9 (which is slightly more than the 2.8 half way point of 5.6?

can we see reputable reliable data on births?

oh wait, that article said about 300k births are illegal (where that number comes from: ???). so .3 X's 4 years (the time frame) = 1.2 million.

1.6 illegals + 1.2 million = 2.8
wow thats barely half. to say that the hispanic population soared based on illegal immigration is just simply not true.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Indeed it is true. Notice, this was reported in the uber pro-illegal WaPo, and the study was conducted by the equally biased Pew Hispanic Center. This is a 2005 study. I hate to even contemplate our current stats.

This is also a glaring illustration of our dire need for immigration enforcement, as opposed to immigration reform. We were already granting entry to more legal immigrants than all other countries combined. Imagine that, coupled with an even larger number entering illegally. We can’t allow this to continue.


Report Details Growth in Illegal Migration - washingtonpost.com
 
Old 02-03-2010, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
the allegations that more immigrants came illegally than legally do no support the assertion that the soar in US hispanic population is due to this increase.

lets get the number of latino/hispanic population in the states, then compare that to numbers (contested/not validated by the gov't) and compare the percentage that that makes up of the larger population.

so lets see. latinos in 2000 made up slighlty more than 35 million people in the US, according to the Census (since that is our barometer).
in 2007, the latest year the census tracked hispanics, the number was close to 45 million. so thats aprox. a 10 million person increase (1.4 million per year).
and the article cited earlier said that about .5 million illegals came from 2000 to 2004 (each year). thats 2 million people. whats the accepted rate of illegals being hispanic? 80%, so thats about1.6 million people in that 4 year stretch.

aprox 1.6 million hispanic illegals coming from 2000-04. compared to 5.6 million in the same years- which is the total increase in population according to the census.

1.6 compared to the 5.6? that doesnt seem to be a majority.

which im sure you guys will now attribute the remainder/discrepancy to children born of illegals, (what are they called t*r babies, sug*r babies, anch*r babies?)

so you guys mean to tell me that those 1.6 million illegals had 1.3 illegal babies (which would put the number of illegals and their babies at 2.9 (which is slightly more than the 2.8 half way point of 5.6?

can we see reputable reliable data on births?

oh wait, that article said about 300k births are illegal (where that number comes from: ???). so .3 X's 4 years (the time frame) = 1.2 million.

1.6 illegals + 1.2 million = 2.8
wow thats barely half. to say that the hispanic population soared based on illegal immigration is just simply not true.
How can you deny it?

Quote:
Nearly 4 million children who have at least one parent who entered the U.S. illegally were born in the United States and are U.S. citizens as a result, according to the study conducted by the Pew Hispanic Center.

That's about three quarters of the estimated 5.5 million children of illegal immigrants inside the United States, according to the study. About 1.8 million children of undocumented immigrants live in poverty, the study found.

In states near Mexico's border -- Arizona, California, Colorado, Nevada and Texas -- about 10 percent of the student population are the children of illegal immigrants.
Study: 4 million 'illegal' immigrant children are native-born citizens - CNN.com
 
Old 02-03-2010, 01:12 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,068,069 times
Reputation: 2244
that link proves nothing. get me facts from the time frame we are discussing then you might have an argument.

the parameters have been set. 2000-04. thats the data we are looking at. this 4 million children of illegals does not specify when they were born. and children would be under the aged of 18. so lets take the 4 million divide it by 17 ( arough average of years per birth by illegals). thats gives us about 235k. thats lower than the article i cited presented by an anti illegal in this same thread [300k].

so 235k X's 4 = less than 1 million children.

added to the previous number of 1.6 is about 2.6. thats still not a majority of new hispanics.

that was too easy. come on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
 
Old 02-03-2010, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
that link proves nothing. get me facts from the time frame we are discussing then you might have an argument.

the parameters have been set. 2000-04. thats the data we are looking at. this 4 million children of illegals does not specify when they were born. and children would be under the aged of 18. so lets take the 4 million divide it by 17 ( arough average of years per birth by illegals). thats gives us about 235k. thats lower than the article i cited presented by an anti illegal in this same thread [300k].

so 235k X's 4 = less than 1 million children.

added to the previous number of 1.6 is about 2.6. thats still not a majority of new hispanics.

that was too easy. come on.
Illegal aliens are giving birth on average to 300,000 babies per year. From 2003 to 2008 they gave birth to 1.3 million. I’m sorry, but I consider this troubling. Factor in the costs associated with pre/postnatal care and the myriad freebies, multiplied by 18 years, and the costs are staggering.

I provided a report which clearly states that we have more illegal immigration than legal immigration. Can you provide evidence to refute it?

Quote:
The number of U.S.-born children with illegal immigrant parents grew to 4 million in 2008 from 2.7 million in 2003, according to the Pew Hispanic Center, a research organization that focuses on the Latino population.
IMMIGRATION: Initiative targets U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants
 
Old 02-03-2010, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Floribama
13,494 posts, read 29,434,352 times
Reputation: 11895
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Actually; I suspect that our Hispanic population is dropping with so many of them returning to Mexico, etc. between our bum economy is growing enforcement of our immigration laws. Too; quite a few Mexicans here legally (green card holders) have left due to no work here.
I spoke with someone that owns a big plant nursery and he said that he barely has enough work for his migrant workers (I assume visas). He said he told them that if they leave for another job that he probably wouldn't be able to hire them back.
 
Old 02-03-2010, 02:52 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,068,069 times
Reputation: 2244
i did- within the parameters set by the original article (2000-04). now you want to change that? its your numbers. you cant just pick and choose what you cite if and when it suits your particular agenda. it dont work like that.
the article about births you posted didnt even give a time frame. therfore its almost inadmissable. we are discussing a particular period of time. thats pretty easy to do.

oh and the assertion wasnt about #'s of illegal v. legal immigration. it was that illegals have caused the hispanic population to soar. that was the "thesis".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Illegal aliens are giving birth on average to 300,000 babies per year. From 2003 to 2008 they gave birth to 1.3 million. I’m sorry, but I consider this troubling. Factor in the costs associated with pre/postnatal care and the myriad freebies, multiplied by 18 years, and the costs are staggering.

I provided a report which clearly states that we have more illegal immigration than legal immigration. Can you provide evidence to refute it?


IMMIGRATION: Initiative targets U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants

Last edited by the one; 02-03-2010 at 03:05 PM..
 
Old 02-03-2010, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
i did- within the parameters set by the original article (2000-04). now you want to change that? its your numbers. you cant just pick and choose what you cite if and when it suits your particular agenda. it dont work like that.
the article about births you posted didnt even give a time frame. therfore its almost inadmissable. we are discussing a particular period of time. thats pretty easy to do.

oh and the assertion wasnt about #'s of illegal v. legal immigration. it was that illegals have caused the hispanic population to soar. that was the "thesis".
And, I gave you 2003-2008. Why is your timeframe more credible than mine? I also answered the illegal vs. legal immigration issue.

Clearly, if we are receiving more illegal aliens than legal immigrants, and the majority of U.S. population growth is attributed to “immigration,” it isn’t difficult to surmise that illegal immigration is responsible for the majority of the Hispanic growth in this country.

You simply refuse to accept the fact that the population growth is primarily due to illegal alien births. Didn’t we have a similar discussion a few months ago?

Quote:
Immigration is the largest factor contributing to population growth in the U.S. Immigration contributes over 2.25 million people to the U.S. population annually (1.5 million legal immigrants and illegal immigrants as of 2001-2002, now estimated at 1.7 million in 2003) plus 750,000 births to immigrant woman annually).31, 38 The total foreign-born population in the U.S. is now 31.1 million, a record 57% increase since 1990. 9-11 million of those are here illegally - a 4.5 million increase since 1990.
U.S. immigration, population growth, and the environment - SUSPS

Quote:
''What's fueling the growth is the natural increase, the U.S.-born babies, of the previous immigrants who came here five or 10 years ago," Klineberg said. ''The number of new immigrants who came to Houston has gone down every year since 2000."

Klineberg said some assume the high growth rate locally is due to a very high fertility rates among Hispanics. He said a bigger factor in Houston is the huge wave of young immigrants from Mexico and Latin America who have settled here in the 1990s.
Hispanics account for more than half of U.S. population growth | National | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle
 
Old 02-03-2010, 04:12 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,068,069 times
Reputation: 2244
its not that your info is more credible that mine or visa versa. we started discussing a specific time frame based on the original article. 2000-04. thats the "evidence" presented. once i flipped that on its head you want to use this other data?

and again. just because there is a supposed or alleged higher number of illegals coming, doesnt mean tha thats the reason the hispanic population is "soaring". the illegals still dont make up half of the hispanic pop increase.

the numbers dont lie.

and your articles are contradictory. one says 300k immigrant births per years. the other says 750K. which one is it? o right, the one that makes your point stick. whos the susps anyways?

oh and the data from the chron article is for immigrants. hispanics. with NO differentiation between legals and illegals. so you are ASSuming that the majority is based on illegals. thats not a good debate tactic.

your grasping here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
And, I gave you 2003-2008. Why is your timeframe more credible than mine? I also answered the illegal vs. legal immigration issue.

Clearly, if we are receiving more illegal aliens than legal immigrants, and the majority of U.S. population growth is attributed to “immigration,” it isn’t difficult to surmise that illegal immigration is responsible for the majority of the Hispanic growth in this country.

You simply refuse to accept the fact that the population growth is primarily due to illegal alien births. Didn’t we have a similar discussion a few months ago?


U.S. immigration, population growth, and the environment - SUSPS


Hispanics account for more than half of U.S. population growth | National | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle
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