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Old 02-06-2010, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Lake Norman, North Carolina
1,213 posts, read 1,397,570 times
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Someone is way too proud of their Dreamie Manifesto propaganda?
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Old 02-06-2010, 09:49 AM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,087,903 times
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I think people have been quite reasonable about illegal immigration...very tolerant of it even...too tolerant...

I just think people are offended by the sheer mass of people who are taking advantage of what started as mere tolerance. From what I can remember growing up, no one became this belligerent about illegal immigration as long as it wasnt overt, nor abused. Most Americans presumed that this country had a special allure anyway, and therefore presumed that others would be lured here whether legally or illegally.

I think it was really the rallies, sense of entitlement, demands of acceptance, and even the projection of cultural superiority that really pushed many American citizens over the edge. I think most Americans are beyond the point of listening...They let illegal immigration slide by for so long, that now they cant even stomach the words "illegal immigration/aliens"...I think at this point, many Americans would be just fine if illegals were shot on sight at the border...I know I would (whether the patrol shoots to kill is up to them)...I wouldnt mind landmines or any other precautionary measures being employed. Sure, its easy to tell people that they're being emotional...love of country SHOULD evoke emotion....Illegal Aliens sure seem to love their country, while enjoying the resources that our country offers.
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Old 02-06-2010, 11:43 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,076,921 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roguer View Post
Someone is way too proud of their Dreamie Manifesto propaganda?
My family has been here longer than yours has most likely (sailed on the Abigail in the 1630s, my grandfather's family is a VERY old Anglo-American family). Not a DREAMIE, just realized that the economic impact of denying education is worse than granting people the ability to go to college.
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Old 02-06-2010, 12:01 PM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 4,084,676 times
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Self-deportation? dont you mean "leave". leave: to go away from.


For those so critical about the usage of the english lauguage, need to keep its traditions.
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Old 02-06-2010, 12:06 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 35,842,224 times
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Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
that1guy: about the only thing protecting known illegal aliens from physical assault (or worse) from highly disgruntled unemployed Americans are unemployment checks. If they were to be discontinued............
If they were to be discontinued........maybe the government might actually ENFORCE current immigration laws to deter the violence of which you predict? Nawwwww, never happen.
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Old 02-06-2010, 12:10 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 35,842,224 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
My family has been here longer than yours has most likely (sailed on the Abigail in the 1630s, my grandfather's family is a VERY old Anglo-American family). Not a DREAMIE, just realized that the economic impact of denying education is worse than granting people the ability to go to college.
I support Chris Kobach and his representation of those fighting the states who unConstitutionally give "in-state" tuition to illegal-aliens at the expense of Amercan citizen-students who are not given access to the same tuition advantage.

Isn't denying American citizens the ability to go to college more egregious than denying illegal-aliens that ability?
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Old 02-06-2010, 12:19 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,076,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
I think people have been quite reasonable about illegal immigration...very tolerant of it even...too tolerant...

I just think people are offended by the sheer mass of people who are taking advantage of what started as mere tolerance. From what I can remember growing up, no one became this belligerent about illegal immigration as long as it wasnt overt, nor abused. Most Americans presumed that this country had a special allure anyway, and therefore presumed that others would be lured here whether legally or illegally.

I think it was really the rallies, sense of entitlement, demands of acceptance, and even the projection of cultural superiority that really pushed many American citizens over the edge. I think most Americans are beyond the point of listening...They let illegal immigration slide by for so long, that now they cant even stomach the words "illegal immigration/aliens"...I think at this point, many Americans would be just fine if illegals were shot on sight at the border...I know I would (whether the patrol shoots to kill is up to them)...I wouldnt mind landmines or any other precautionary measures being employed. Sure, its easy to tell people that they're being emotional...love of country SHOULD evoke emotion....Illegal Aliens sure seem to love their country, while enjoying the resources that our country offers.
Love of country shouldn't equal to jingoism. Landmines? Really? We see that as Americans we increasingly are accepting fringe ideas to be a part of the mainstream. The Walmart Patriot is becoming a part of national discourse (think Tea baggers). And frankly, what's wrong with liking two countries. I love America, but love the country that my mom is from as well.

Unfortunately, Hispanics have suffered discrimination throughout our national history just like any other minority group. Housing covenants, segregated schools, and mass deportations (even of those that were legal, esp in the 1930s) have happened in this community. While you (solytaire) personally may not have seen this growing up, doesn't mean that this element didn't exist. Many if not most Americans, in the previous generation, held onto the social Darwinist ideals that justified segregation.
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Old 02-06-2010, 12:24 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,076,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
I support Chris Kobach and his representation of those fighting the states who unConstitutionally give "in-state" tuition to illegal-aliens at the expense of Amercan citizen-students who are not given access to the same tuition advantage.

Isn't denying American citizens the ability to go to college more egregious than denying illegal-aliens that ability?
So you change the system (get rid of in/out state tuition). Increase federal funding for state sponsored schools. Look, this isn't solely about the DREAM act. It's about the attitudes that prevail on the "anti-illegal" side of the issue.

It's funny because if the majority of illegal immigrants pay STATE taxes shouldn't be able to gain some benefit (esp. if they are trying to better themselves, thus in turn later contribute more in taxes?).

Regardless of this particular issue, the attitudes that prevail against this group of people are juxtaposed to the ideals we try to portray abroad. The justifications used for extreme actions against illegal immigration (I'm in favor with some aspects...doing away with birthright, instituting fines on employers...but still want reforms to address those that already live here) is ironically diametrically in opposition to the ideals of our nation.
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Old 02-06-2010, 12:27 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
I think people have been quite reasonable about illegal immigration...very tolerant of it even...too tolerant...

I just think people are offended by the sheer mass of people who are taking advantage of what started as mere tolerance. From what I can remember growing up, no one became this belligerent about illegal immigration as long as it wasnt overt, nor abused. Most Americans presumed that this country had a special allure anyway, and therefore presumed that others would be lured here whether legally or illegally.

I think it was really the rallies, sense of entitlement, demands of acceptance, and even the projection of cultural superiority that really pushed many American citizens over the edge. I think most Americans are beyond the point of listening...They let illegal immigration slide by for so long, that now they cant even stomach the words "illegal immigration/aliens"...I think at this point, many Americans would be just fine if illegals were shot on sight at the border...I know I would (whether the patrol shoots to kill is up to them)...I wouldnt mind landmines or any other precautionary measures being employed. Sure, its easy to tell people that they're being emotional...love of country SHOULD evoke emotion....Illegal Aliens sure seem to love their country, while enjoying the resources that our country offers.
While I can't condone violence, yours is a very perceptive post. Having been involved with illegals over some 4 decades now, I agree with lots of what you say. Whereas once illegals were a 'non-issue'...were happy to be HERE and not back HOME....whereas they once actually DID do the jobs the 'locals' didn't want...and whereas they were once QUITE well tolerated..the fact is that all this has changed...Americans have changed, and so have illegals...both in attitude, in outlook, in their expectations, and in their sheer overwhelming numbers.

Sometimes things that are 'OK' in reasonable numbers....at a certain time in history...are just no longer 'OK' anymore, when conditions change. Illegal immigration may be one such thing.
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Old 02-06-2010, 12:33 PM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 4,084,676 times
Reputation: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
I support Chris Kobach and his representation of those fighting the states who unConstitutionally give "in-state" tuition to illegal-aliens at the expense of Amercan citizen-students who are not given access to the same tuition advantage.

Isn't denying American citizens the ability to go to college more egregious than denying illegal-aliens that ability?
I dont think that recieveing a break on STATE run school tuition is a question of Constitutional right.

please cite the constiutional right being deprived.
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