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Old 02-23-2010, 05:53 PM
3,536 posts, read 5,077,957 times
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Free Market Capitalism is only a govt theology for our economy..when you get to the nuts and bolts of our Democratic Republic, we are really more communist than we ever care to admit. Mr. Smith realizes that his money is his, no matter where it comes from...if it were unethical to profit from overseas manufacturing then labor laws would prevent it. Too, in this country Mr. Smith has paid more taxes than those who have stolen the jobs, and is therefore actually contributing MORE to society and the illegal immigrants well being (communism) than the illegal immigrants are contributing to their own. As long as he has met or exceeded fiscal projections, and stayed within his budget, wages shouldnt be a factor...but the problem comes when Mr. Smith is paying 60% of his check in taxes which then go to support those who are stealing the jobs.. (Illegal Aliens, in this case)..while said worker bee is racking up more bills in state services than they are funding.

Gov't deregulation, the current means we provide even healthcare, and more obviously the lack of government run companies contradict the idea we are "more communist than we like to admit". Mr. Smith, I'm assuming, may have paid more...but most likely the gap in wealth that caused Mr. Smith to pay more increased dramatically...meaning that he is paying more since he earned more over time. The income gap has GREATLY risen in this nation. This not from "people who stole jobs", but rather to increased pay raises in the top tier of earners in our nation. Today's rich are WAY richer than the rich of yesterday.

Not to mention the idea of illegal immigrants being on welfare has been disproven...the majority of illegal immigrants do not recieve benefits.

I will agree to disagree...I have faith that Americans know how to prioritize their interests...I believe that Americans know what is best for them and their children's futures. I think the only domestic reform necessary is in corporate hiring practices...the rest can be hashed out with foreign and lending policy...

I feel with the spectacle of media, we follow the most popular trends (death panels, illegal immigrant scare). That's how we entered into Iraq. We have A LOT more issues to contend with than simply hiring pracitices domestically (gay civil rights, healthcare, social security, are three large ones...)

I realize that lending policy is a common criticism, but it is not one that I think we are obligated to fix alone....Someone will always feel short changed...furthermore from the perspective of an Anti Illegal immgration advocate, I think it is a bit pedantic to even make reform of our lending practices a prerequisite for closing our borders or enforcing our laws.

If we caused the a significant portion of the problem, we should at least help fix it. You do realize that the lending policies have caused illegal immigration? Closing the borders will only stoke the black market to have more illegal immigration. True structural changes need to occur.

Really, I dont think that getting bogged down in trade policy reformation and lending policy should be an objective for our immigration legislators and enforcement....the possibilities of such reform wouldnt move the electorate during election season because they dont directly impact American citizens....if politicians can find a way to make these things relevant (convincingly relevant) to the American citizen, then change may be in order...but so far it is not what Americans want addressed..which I think is the overarching problem: No matter HOW wrong people perceive Americans to be in their thinking, no matter how stupid we all are - the reality is that it is this govt's job to enforce the will of the people...Plainly, that is not being done...Our govt. is broken...not our immigration policy nor our lending policy...Judging by the people Ive talked to personally, the immigration debate is far moreso about the govt's lack of accountability to the will of the people, than it is about any xenophobia or bigotry.

No it's not simply its job. If were to simply enforce the will of the people, the ruling for Brown v. Board of Education would have been overturned. The ruling for gay marriage in CA would not have entered the courts (also gay marriage was legal prior to prop 8 with a minority of supporters). Sometimes, its to uphold the ideals of our founding and constitution. The larger compliants about illegal immigrants are them taking their jobs (which many studies have debunked), lowering incomes (which has been debunked), about not learning English (which subsequent generations learn), increased crime (not really seen), and so on...these stereotypes are rooted in fear, not in true political discourse.

Wanting revenge is simply the result of wanting parity..if it wasnt, there would be no dispute about perceived past misgivings. I mean, EVERY country who is successful did a lot to get their position...illegal immigrants are doing a lot to undercut the American worker resulting in something that is even less than parity...it is mere obsequiousness. Something that unions and labor agreements have battled hard to prevent American workers from having to partake of...

That's not true. This entire paragraph is simply not true. Illegal immigrants, accounting for a TINY minority of workers have done less to undercut workers than automation and outsourcing. So the "undercutting" doesn't really factor. In one thread I posted how are illegal immigrants "undercutting" African American workers, if they get paid more? It is simply parity, both culturally and economically. There are fringe groups, but for most people, a system that reconciles both sides of the debate is the ideal solution.

Truthfully, if those third world countries and Mexico etc. dont want to subscribe to American exceptionalism, then they dont need to subscribe to American aide at all...we give more aide to impoverished nations than any other nation. America's exceptionalism is what makes that possible, yet its exceptionalism only becomes a problem when its payback time...Im just not buying that.

Or we can not base our policies on mythology? No, American exceptionalism doesn't provide aid to nations...
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Old 02-23-2010, 05:56 PM
3,536 posts, read 5,077,957 times
Reputation: 822
Now see, if I replaced India with China, then the premise for the whole "Nefarious, selfish, globalist, exceptionalist" doesnt really float imo.

Huh? I would reread the paragraph. I feel that you didn't grasp the idea well enough. Simply put, it's not about the location (it could be China, India, Malaysia, etc.) if the worldview still exists the location doesn't negate the internal thoughts.
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