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Old 02-05-2010, 11:59 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,081,161 times
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I find it interesting that while we live in a society that tries to espouse tolerance and equality. However, we don't behave so both globally and abroad. I find it even more interesting that those that want to deport and shut the borders neglect the larger issues. It's rather sad that we can decry the poor for being poor while we live out our middle class existence. Being the type of person I am, it really makes me wonder how we came to a point in which Walmart patriots have become the norm, have become the driving force in political discussion. A patriot is a person who loves their country. This does come in many forms. It can come from being critical of our government and ourselves. A Walmart patriot is a person who may love their country, but oft in a misguided and at times inadvertantly hypocritical manner. They typically lack the understanding of how nuanced issues are. They prefer consumption to conservation, feeling that it is their right to consume. Typically, they are conservative leaning. Latte liberal is the left's equivalent (I personally would put the two in the same category, but there are many demographic differences). Soundbites replace substantive research. Extremism replaces sound policies.

A great example is denouncing the DREAM act. The only substantive argument given is that those attending state sponsored universities should not be able to recieve such subsidies towards education. However, it has been shown that the majority of illegal immigrants have paid taxes. Another argument given is that they are illegal thus they shouldn't be here. True, but they are here. Simply put, it saves money in the long term to have a system in place that addresses these issues by providing these individuals with a decent education. The old adage is true; education pays.

The Walmart patriot simply uses emotional metrics to measure the success or failure of a certain policy. Selective facts are used, typically from sources that reinforce their beliefs.

Militarization of the border often times is a solution proposed by said types of people. While in theory a scare tactic is a good idea, the reality is far from theory. Currently, our government spends over $680 billion on defense. However, the figure is closer to $1trillion when considering other departments (besides defense) that aid in defense efforts. Our nation simply cannot fund this proposition. Regardless of funding, there is also the issue of international reception. With the global recession, many changes have occurred. The United States is increasingly being taken off its once golden perch. We simply cannot do as we wish. Putting troops on the border could be deemed as an escalation. This would not bode politically abroad.

The Walmart patriot simply wants to relive a sense of nostalgia in which America was the hegemonic power. A just, verdant, equal power.

We weren't. We never were. The Walmart patriot lives for American exceptionalism. Yet, we aren't the beacon of light and truth. We unjustly gained territories (the American SW, the Philippines, Hawaii). We had forced slavery. We later had an apartheid state. Our nation supported genocide in order to achieve Manifest Destiny. Currently, we have propped regimes that serve to disinterest the populations they serve (Congo, Haiti). We place demads on nations to swiftly reform their economies so that we can profit, while the local population suffer (Argentina, Jamaica, Venezuala, Mexico...various IMF reforms). We have a nasty track record of abuse in nations we are at war with (everything from prostitution rings, rape, abuse of civilians) We shoot innocent civilians in nations we aren't at war with (Pakistan). Our leaders feel that we should cut healthcare funding (the backlash against the public option). The list goes on.

Yet, Walmart patriots seem to feel that we occupy some niche of exceptionalism. They cite that our citizens help in the legal process. That they laws serve those that live here. Interestingly the facts paint a different picture. Minorities are more likely to be stopped than Whites. We have selective enforncement in this nation. Minorities are more likely to have harsher sentences than Whites for the same offense. Centuries of racist attitudes simply do not disappear. The illegal immigration debate simply reinforces this. Many arguments are given on the premise that they (typically Hispanics) do not follow the law. Somehow they don't fit within our context of exceptionalism.

The Walmart patriot simply wants pity and answers to the problems that plague them and those they care for.

Illegal immigrants comprise a super minority. Yet, according to the Walmart patriot demographic, they are responsible for failling schools across the nation, hospital closures across the nation, lack of jobs, high real estate prices, the subprime crisis, increased car premiums, increased health insurance premiums, higher taxes, and increased homeland security funding...just to name a few. To put it quickly and succinctly, most studies disprove this time and time again. Failing schools usually are due to unequal funding as well as other social variables. The majority of students in our nation are legal residents. Hospital closures are due to the inability of the poor to pay for medical treatment. Roughly 35%-40% of a hospital's budget is not recouped. This is the national average according to the AMA in a 2008 study. Those without health insurance, roughly 40 million residents, typically wait untill a problem gets worse. Illegal immigrants may contribute, but according to a Pew Hispanic Research study, rougly 40-50% of illegal immigrants have health insurance. Not as high as the general population, but it disproves the notion that illegal immigrants are universally uninsured.

Low wage jobs comprise the majority of illegal immigrant employment. The average illegal immigrant household income was roughly 40-45k, 20k shy of the national average, but significantly above the poverty level. The median income was slihgtly less at roughly 35k. This narrow income band indicates that that illegal immigrants are centered squarely in the lower middle class. Their income levels are consistent with other blue collar workers across the nation. With that said, wage depression is typically seen on the lowest scales of both illegal immigrants and citizens alike. It is important to note wage depression is more likely seen in the informal sector of the economy since employment is unregulated and hence skirts labor laws.

Blue collar workers face greater threats than illegal immigration. Automation of work, outsourcing, and the retooling of the American economy to being more service based are greater threats than illegal immigration.

The Walmart patriot is not a bad person. We all have aspects of the Walmart patriot. Yet, we can't base public policy on the Walmart patriot manifesto.
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Old 02-05-2010, 12:22 PM
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,055 posts, read 21,181,327 times
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Denouncing the DREAM act - whoever is pushing for this for their own personal gain should buy a plane ticket, go home, and study there. And they can take their soapbox with them and demand the changes from their own government instead of trying to meddle in our government's affairs.

Have a nice flight DREAMies - we hope you enjoyed your stay at the USA Inn. Right now, we need to go put up the "No Vacancy" sign...
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Old 02-05-2010, 12:28 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,081,161 times
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\Denouncing the DREAM act - whoever is pushing for this for their own personal gain should buy a plane ticket, go home, and study there. And they can take their soapbox with them and demand the changes from their own government instead of trying to meddle in our government's affairs.

UCSB did a study showing that it would cost MORE to deny education than to supply education (lacking a high school diploma costs the state of California billions of dollars. Lacking a college education cuts your earning, thus your tax burden, by a lifetime average of $1 million). That kind of goes without saying. Not to mention, that deportation would cost at least $100 billion. This excludes any other costs associated with deportation (read Pottsville).

Have a nice flight DREAMies - we hope you enjoyed your stay at the USA Inn. Right now, we need to go put up the "No Vacancy" sign...

You exemplify exactly the type of person I'm writing about.
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Old 02-05-2010, 12:32 PM
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,055 posts, read 21,181,327 times
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Self-deportation costs virtually nothing. I don't exemplify anything you are talking about, and you are in no position to claim such. Do you know me? You figured out what "type of person" I am from that brief response?

It would be nice if you could argue your point without turning your guns on the other posters.
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Old 02-05-2010, 12:40 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,081,161 times
Reputation: 822
Self-deportation costs virtually nothing. I don't exemplify anything you are talking about, and you are in no position to claim such. Do you know me? You figured out what "type of person" I am from that brief response?

Doesn't happen though. During the Great Depression, while conditions were bad here...they were worse in Mexico. Thus, an increase of illegal immigration still happened. So it is highly unlikely that self deporation would occur since the majority of illegal immigrants come from far poorer nations.

Not just from this response, but others as well. Again, it's not a bad thing per se. That's great you are passionate, or so it seems (I can only judge based on your treatment of the posts).

It would be nice if you could argue your point without turning your guns on the other posters.

Just saying that you exemplify exactly what I wrote (the highly patriotic attitude, the emotionality, the negation of the consequences). It's not you personally, but it's your post. Again, it's not "bad", it is what it is. You didn't even bother to note the potential costs and potential benefits of deportation. Now you are saying self deportation would occur, while not showing how the informal sector would rise thus depressing wages. It's just the follow through, I feel isn't there. It's not just you...
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Old 02-05-2010, 02:06 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,081,161 times
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It's truly sad that nobody is seeing how our national discourse has to come to this. Another great example are the Teabaggers. They are pinnacle of Walmart Patriots! I remember a thread in which people supported this fringe group.
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Old 02-05-2010, 02:22 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,622,827 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
Self-deportation costs virtually nothing. from

.
I agree. 'Self deportation' is the way to go. Several times, I stopped myself from drunk driving (I didn't drink). Another time, I picked up an expensive item in a store, but put it back before I stole it....and once, I restrained myself from punching my boss in the nose.

Therefore I 'self-corrected'; I stopped several 'crimes in progress' by not committing them, and it didn't cost me a dime. No cost to the taxpayer, either...and I didn't even have to use force.

'Self-deportation' is vastly preferable to waiting around for the government to do it. And when you 'self deport', you avoid all that publicity.
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Old 02-05-2010, 02:27 PM
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,055 posts, read 21,181,327 times
Reputation: 22525
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I agree. 'Self deportation' is the way to go. Several times, I stopped myself from drunk driving (I didn't drink). Another time, I picked up an expensive item in a store, but put it back before I stole it....and once, I restrained myself from punching my boss in the nose.

Therefore I 'self-corrected'; I stopped several 'crimes in progress' by not committing them, and it didn't cost me a dime. No cost to the taxpayer, either...and I didn't even have to use force.

'Self-deportation' is vastly preferable to waiting around for the government to do it. And when you 'self deport', you avoid all that publicity.
That must have been tough, mac. I admire your pluckiness.

It's time to take down the proverbial bird feeder.
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Old 02-05-2010, 02:43 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,091,945 times
Reputation: 1814
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I agree. 'Self deportation' is the way to go. Several times, I stopped myself from drunk driving (I didn't drink). Another time, I picked up an expensive item in a store, but put it back before I stole it....and once, I restrained myself from punching my boss in the nose.

Therefore I 'self-corrected'; I stopped several 'crimes in progress' by not committing them, and it didn't cost me a dime. No cost to the taxpayer, either...and I didn't even have to use force.

'Self-deportation' is vastly preferable to waiting around for the government to do it. And when you 'self deport', you avoid all that publicity.

I agree...self deportation would be a great automation that would relieve taxpayers without burdening them with liability and lawsuits that would arise from "improperly" performing the deportations
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Old 02-05-2010, 02:48 PM
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,055 posts, read 21,181,327 times
Reputation: 22525
Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
I agree...self deportation would be a great automation that would relieve taxpayers without burdening them with liability and lawsuits that would arise from "improperly" performing the deportations
It appears that some of the (smarter) DREAmies are finally getting the big picture after TOTUS' big let-down in the State of the Union - many have stated on the DREAM-on blog that they are packing their bags and going to live somewhere else because they don't want to wait here forever being nannies and gardeners all their lives. Finally, some of them are actually GETTING it.
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