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Old 02-19-2010, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
Those who say this will also threaten consumers with the specter of higher prices, if their labor costs were to be forced up.
Not likely in this recession. If anything; going by food prices, we are already looking at deflation so there is financial room to pay for legal help in the fields/stockyards.

 
Old 02-19-2010, 02:25 PM
 
34,990 posts, read 33,863,084 times
Reputation: 6156
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Not likely in this recession. If anything; going by food prices, we are already looking at deflation so there is financial room to pay for legal help in the fields/stockyards.
Has there been an uptick in hiring of Americans and firing of under-the-table illegal immigrants as a result of the financial crisis? In what sectors?

Seriously; I dont know if there has been or not.
 
Old 02-19-2010, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 4,721,018 times
Reputation: 815
Quote:
Agricultural labor shortage
(Could be addressed with: - More mechanization
Nope, what could be mechanized was, 20-30 years ago, as a result of Chavez's actions. No one has figured out how to mechanically weed a lettuce field, or mechanicially pick the right grape leaving the non ripe grape, sorry there, but you are stuck with the illegals, unless of course the government makes them legal, then the problem is solved.
 
Old 02-19-2010, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 4,721,018 times
Reputation: 815
Quote:
legal help in the fields/stockyards
American citizens have not worked in any numbers in the produce fields in 100 years, aside from the depths of the depression.
 
Old 02-19-2010, 03:46 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
Nope, what could be mechanized was, 20-30 years ago, as a result of Chavez's actions. No one has figured out how to mechanically weed a lettuce field, or mechanicially pick the right grape leaving the non ripe grape, sorry there, but you are stuck with the illegals, unless of course the government makes them legal, then the problem is solved.
There already are unlimited H-2A visas for legal immigrant farm workers but the farmers choose to use illegal labor instead because it is cheaper. They are circumventing our immigration and labor laws for more profit. If these illegals are legalized they will just hire the next batch of illegals instead.
 
Old 02-19-2010, 04:09 PM
 
1 posts, read 555 times
Reputation: 10
Default hmmmm

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
In this recession; some (relatively) slight short term pain, but lots of long term gain

The only area we may have a problem is dealing with agriculture. Otherwise: who needs illegal aliens with scads of Americans/green card holders out of work, rhetorically speaking?
"we may have a problem is dealing with agriculture."

Ok let me fill you in on a few things about this little thing you infer may be only a slight problem.

Let me first state, there are many reports (none of which I can reference here because I am personally too busy to look for stats but stats can reflect anything anyway) which show illegal aliens are less likely to take advantage of public assistance, especially since the risk of getting caught and deported is increased exponentially. I work for a financial institution and I have seen first hand the trepidation of even opening a bank account.

These people are the same people that work in the VAST fields of Apples, Asperigus (sp), berries, cauliflower, nectarines, peaches, watermelons, pomagranets, celery, beef, chicken, Turkey, Pork, eggs, cheese. Also, all those nice processed foods-particularly fish and ethnic foods-yup here too.

So if the people that essentially get us our food were to disappear, we don't eat.

OK so we can still get food, we have things shipped in from other countries ALL THE TIME-wasn't that an ecuadorian nectarine you may have eaten today? From what I have read in various news reports the quality of the fruit and the way it is grown is not necessarily the safest nor guaranteed. Remember the ecoli melon scare?

Here is another scenario. Ok so as Americans we pull ourselves up by the boot straps and we go out and we are going to work the land ourselves. TO HELL WITH ILLEGALS- we can survive. We go out and we work the fields. Do you know how hard the work is???? I DO-I have walked the walk. Digging ditches in 110 degree heat, Climbing up and down ladders repeated ly in the same. Constantly hunched pulling weeds. How much would you want to get paid for that kind of labor. Oh yeah- overtime exempt and up to 12 hour days too. Yeah me too A LOT!!!! So guess how much you will be paying for your all american picked fruits and veggies. Doesn't seem worth it.

We have to understand, America is among the greatest nations of the world, and the strongest. if our government REALLY wanted to stop illegal immigration, they could. It is not in their best interest to stop illegal immigration, prices would go up and you wouldn't be able to get a .99 cent hamburger from McWendyBox.

The way we eat heavily affects our society, if al illegals left all at once, we would be SCREWED!!!
 
Old 02-19-2010, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPicThinker View Post
"we may have a problem is dealing with agriculture."

Ok let me fill you in on a few things about this little thing you infer may be only a slight problem.

Let me first state, there are many reports (none of which I can reference here because I am personally too busy to look for stats but stats can reflect anything anyway) which show illegal aliens are less likely to take advantage of public assistance, especially since the risk of getting caught and deported is increased exponentially. I work for a financial institution and I have seen first hand the trepidation of even opening a bank account.

These people are the same people that work in the VAST fields of Apples, Asperigus (sp), berries, cauliflower, nectarines, peaches, watermelons, pomagranets, celery, beef, chicken, Turkey, Pork, eggs, cheese. Also, all those nice processed foods-particularly fish and ethnic foods-yup here too.

So if the people that essentially get us our food were to disappear, we don't eat.

OK so we can still get food, we have things shipped in from other countries ALL THE TIME-wasn't that an ecuadorian nectarine you may have eaten today? From what I have read in various news reports the quality of the fruit and the way it is grown is not necessarily the safest nor guaranteed. Remember the ecoli melon scare?

Here is another scenario. Ok so as Americans we pull ourselves up by the boot straps and we go out and we are going to work the land ourselves. TO HELL WITH ILLEGALS- we can survive. We go out and we work the fields. Do you know how hard the work is???? I DO-I have walked the walk. Digging ditches in 110 degree heat, Climbing up and down ladders repeated ly in the same. Constantly hunched pulling weeds. How much would you want to get paid for that kind of labor. Oh yeah- overtime exempt and up to 12 hour days too. Yeah me too A LOT!!!! So guess how much you will be paying for your all american picked fruits and veggies. Doesn't seem worth it.

We have to understand, America is among the greatest nations of the world, and the strongest. if our government REALLY wanted to stop illegal immigration, they could. It is not in their best interest to stop illegal immigration, prices would go up and you wouldn't be able to get a .99 cent hamburger from McWendyBox.

The way we eat heavily affects our society, if al illegals left all at once, we would be SCREWED!!!
Being that maybe 3% of all illegals work in agriculture; I am not that concerned about the ramifications of mass deportations
 
Old 02-19-2010, 04:25 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPicThinker View Post
"we may have a problem is dealing with agriculture."

Ok let me fill you in on a few things about this little thing you infer may be only a slight problem.

Let me first state, there are many reports (none of which I can reference here because I am personally too busy to look for stats but stats can reflect anything anyway) which show illegal aliens are less likely to take advantage of public assistance, especially since the risk of getting caught and deported is increased exponentially. I work for a financial institution and I have seen first hand the trepidation of even opening a bank account.

These people are the same people that work in the VAST fields of Apples, Asperigus (sp), berries, cauliflower, nectarines, peaches, watermelons, pomagranets, celery, beef, chicken, Turkey, Pork, eggs, cheese. Also, all those nice processed foods-particularly fish and ethnic foods-yup here too.

So if the people that essentially get us our food were to disappear, we don't eat.

OK so we can still get food, we have things shipped in from other countries ALL THE TIME-wasn't that an ecuadorian nectarine you may have eaten today? From what I have read in various news reports the quality of the fruit and the way it is grown is not necessarily the safest nor guaranteed. Remember the ecoli melon scare?

Here is another scenario. Ok so as Americans we pull ourselves up by the boot straps and we go out and we are going to work the land ourselves. TO HELL WITH ILLEGALS- we can survive. We go out and we work the fields. Do you know how hard the work is???? I DO-I have walked the walk. Digging ditches in 110 degree heat, Climbing up and down ladders repeated ly in the same. Constantly hunched pulling weeds. How much would you want to get paid for that kind of labor. Oh yeah- overtime exempt and up to 12 hour days too. Yeah me too A LOT!!!! So guess how much you will be paying for your all american picked fruits and veggies. Doesn't seem worth it.

We have to understand, America is among the greatest nations of the world, and the strongest. if our government REALLY wanted to stop illegal immigration, they could. It is not in their best interest to stop illegal immigration, prices would go up and you wouldn't be able to get a .99 cent hamburger from McWendyBox.

The way we eat heavily affects our society, if al illegals left all at once, we would be SCREWED!!!
Read my post above how there are already unlimited visas for legal immigrant farm workers but the farmers choose to hire cheap illegal labor instead. So no, there wouldn't be any shortage of farm workers available if all the illegals left.
 
Old 02-19-2010, 04:27 PM
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,050 posts, read 21,163,651 times
Reputation: 22525
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPicThinker View Post
"we may have a problem is dealing with agriculture."

Ok let me fill you in on a few things about this little thing you infer may be only a slight problem.

Let me first state, there are many reports (none of which I can reference here because I am personally too busy to look for stats but stats can reflect anything anyway) which show illegal aliens are less likely to take advantage of public assistance, especially since the risk of getting caught and deported is increased exponentially. I work for a financial institution and I have seen first hand the trepidation of even opening a bank account.

These people are the same people that work in the VAST fields of Apples, Asperigus (sp), berries, cauliflower, nectarines, peaches, watermelons, pomagranets, celery, beef, chicken, Turkey, Pork, eggs, cheese. Also, all those nice processed foods-particularly fish and ethnic foods-yup here too.

So if the people that essentially get us our food were to disappear, we don't eat.

OK so we can still get food, we have things shipped in from other countries ALL THE TIME-wasn't that an ecuadorian nectarine you may have eaten today? From what I have read in various news reports the quality of the fruit and the way it is grown is not necessarily the safest nor guaranteed. Remember the ecoli melon scare?

Here is another scenario. Ok so as Americans we pull ourselves up by the boot straps and we go out and we are going to work the land ourselves. TO HELL WITH ILLEGALS- we can survive. We go out and we work the fields. Do you know how hard the work is???? I DO-I have walked the walk. Digging ditches in 110 degree heat, Climbing up and down ladders repeated ly in the same. Constantly hunched pulling weeds. How much would you want to get paid for that kind of labor. Oh yeah- overtime exempt and up to 12 hour days too. Yeah me too A LOT!!!! So guess how much you will be paying for your all american picked fruits and veggies. Doesn't seem worth it.

We have to understand, America is among the greatest nations of the world, and the strongest. if our government REALLY wanted to stop illegal immigration, they could. It is not in their best interest to stop illegal immigration, prices would go up and you wouldn't be able to get a .99 cent hamburger from McWendyBox.

The way we eat heavily affects our society, if al illegals left all at once, we would be SCREWED!!!
In other words, you endorse the exploitation of an underpaid and overworked underclass, so you can buy a hamburger from the dollar menu? How very imperialistic of you - bravo!
 
Old 02-19-2010, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 4,721,018 times
Reputation: 815
Quote:
underpaid and overworked underclass
Nonsense, field workers get paid at least minimum wage and are protected by the same labor standards as any other worker. If they are paid piece work they can make $20-30 an hour.

And they are doing work you would not stoop to do.

Quote:
There already are unlimited H-2A visas for legal immigrant farm workers but the farmers choose to use illegal labor instead because it is cheaper. They are circumventing our immigration and labor laws for more profit. If these illegals are legalized they will just hire the next batch of illegals instead.
This canard is brought out by anti illegal immigration people, but it is not factual. The H-2A visa system does not work in agriculture. There is a time lag from the time the help is needed until it hits the field. The crops don't wait, and neither does the weather. If i need two dozen harvesters tomorrow because of the rain, or next week during the clearing before the next storm, I need them when I need them.

That is why the H2 system does not work. It has nothing, let me say that again, nothing to do with cheaper. Minimum wage is minimum wage, it makes no difference if the work is legal or not legal. If wages are above minimum it is because the skills needed pay more.

Ya'll need to deal with the real world.

Let me add this in, you can stew on it. Very few growers or farmers if any hire field workers or have employees who work stoop labor. See if you can figure out how that fits in with my first paragraph.

Last edited by Clarks; 02-19-2010 at 06:45 PM..
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