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Old 02-20-2010, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
You think all workers in the fields are illegal? Wrong
You still don't have any idea how field workers are employed do ya?
The system used offers workers near continuous employment, lay offs don't work well with minimum wage jobs.

Funny thing, Growers are, in the overwhelming majority, standard issue die hard Republicans, they hate them liberals, and they, by the force of economics do what they must.

If you have another way, quit belly aching and come out with it.
E-Verify mandatory across the board for all employees would be a good start.

 
Old 02-20-2010, 08:41 AM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,206 posts, read 2,137,256 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
You think all workers in the fields are illegal? Wrong
You still don't have any idea how field workers are employed do ya?
The system used offers workers near continuous employment, lay offs don't work well with minimum wage jobs.

Funny thing, Growers are, in the overwhelming majority, standard issue die hard Republicans, they hate them liberals, and they, by the force of economics do what they must.

If you have another way, quit belly aching and come out with it.
I own a 50 acre farm. Nuff said E-Verify works very well
 
Old 02-20-2010, 08:53 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
Pretty tough to make comments on a subject that ya'll don't know the basics of. Here is why farmers don't hire field workers. I might need no one for the next two weeks, the following week I might need 50 for harvest, the week after that I might want four for weeding. I cannot keep 50 on the books, I cannot afford to round up the exact number I need at any given time. So I hire none.
Ya'll want to sound like experts but you have no idea who hires and how they hire, now do ya?

I am not sure what you are saying. Are you saying there are legal immigrants in Mexico wanting to work the fields in Mexico? Are you saying there are legal immigrants in Mexico wanting to work the fields in America? If so why did they get legal immigrant status in Mexico?

I explained to you why H2A isn't used for field workers, it could be used for long term employees and is probably is, but, not for field workers which is the greater number of workers.
I don't understand where you confusion is. What I said is there are immigrants who can come in under the H-2A visa to work farms here and those visas are unlimited. It doesn't matter what country they are from so why do you only mention Mexico? I had posted in this forum awhile back the details as to how it works. Bottom line is there is no reason to hire illegal aliens for farm work since these unlimited visas are available to bring in legal aliens. Those farmers/growers who do not hire workers the legal way and instead employing illegal aliens are doing so to pad their pockets with more profit and circumventing our immigration and labor laws.
 
Old 02-20-2010, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,197,803 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by mading6 View Post
I am a landlord in Los Angeles, CA and I am NOT allowed to ask legal status on any tenants. I can/could be sued for discrimination.

When my family first aquired this apartment building, Los Angeles was thinking about holding all landlords responsible for illegals (which the ones in my building all are under rent control and pay way under market value so I really wouldn't mind them out). Well the law did not pass due to it being discriminatory.

Us landlords (in some cities/states) are NOT allowed to ask such questions pertaining to citizenship.

Insane.

I have only been in Los Angeles for 3 years and it is a sad thing here.
Quote:
Today my best friend and I got to witness a lady pull her pants down and pee on the sidewalk at a very very busy intersection in Los Angeles. We could not believe our eyes. So disgusting.
That LA for ya. You must be in East LA
 
Old 02-20-2010, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 4,719,645 times
Reputation: 815
Quote:
I own a 50 acre farm. Nuff said E-Verify works very well
Location and crop?

H2 A was designed to fail, which it does very well.

Quote:
Those farmers/growers who do not hire workers the legal way and instead employing illegal aliens
Apparently you missed the part where I said growers don't hire workers. I guess I have to explain it to you, field labor is supplied by contractors. If I need a crew, I call the contractor, they supply the workers, they pay the workers, I and the rest of the growers have nothing to do with the field workers except giving them directions.

You want to blame the grower, but that is like blaming the Japanese Army for the bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon, get the facts, then complain, or better yet, get the facts and understand why the system is as it is.

Quote:
I got to witness a lady pull her pants down and pee on the sidewalk
Brittany Spears?


Regarding e verify, who gets it? Does Peter Johannsen get it or just Tony Lopez.

Now to the crux of the problem. Due to the government action or in action, 85% of field workers are indeed illegal. They are illegal because there is no effective guest worker program, and there are not enough citizens lining up for the jobs, now you may say that there are enough citizens to do the work, but the fields are there, and the citizens aren't you figure that one out.
Since 85% are illegal, if e verify was enforced the economy of AG in CA would collapse. The economic impact of losing much of a 40 billion dollar a year industry would be devastating, so now, lets see a rational solution to the problem, shall we?

I have one, you don't I betcha.

Last edited by Clarks; 02-20-2010 at 09:15 AM..
 
Old 02-20-2010, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,197,803 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
That sucks.
Quote:
The law needs to be changed nationwide to at least allow landlords to ask the legal status of potential tenants.
As it is: a landlord can be held responsible for illegal activity on its properties. Damned if you do; damned if you don't.
It is in OK Doesn't AZ's bill have that measure?
 
Old 02-20-2010, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,197,803 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by getout View Post
Exactly! This is just crazy. I think more landlords need to demand a more comprehensive directive regarding their own assets.
Some state allow this requirement on rental applications. Although it's "optional", if it's not answered, the applicant can be denied.
 
Old 02-20-2010, 09:20 AM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,206 posts, read 2,137,256 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
Location and crop?

H2 A was designed to fail, which it does very well.

Apparently you missed the part where I said growers don't hire workers. I guess I have to explain it to you, field labor is supplied by contractors. If I need a crew, I call the contractor, they supply the workers, they pay the workers, I and the rest of the growers have nothing to do with the field workers except giving them directions.

You want to blame the grower, but that is like blaming the Japanese Army for the bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon, get the facts, then complain, or better yet, get the facts and understand why the system is as it is.
None of your business. We grow several crops which need to be hand sickled, hand dug and sorted, the local teens, groups and neighboring farmers enjoy the work (and pay) very well. Ever hear of Co-op? If you have not, you are bogus. It is sweeping across all states.

The only thing I am missing is your point, why are you even posting if you have nothing to do with anything? How can your argument hold water if you know nothing? What is your argument again?

Blaming the farmer (ok, grower)? I blame those who hire illegal people to do any work. The only farm industry that has been brought to the forefront regarding it being a detriment if illegals left is "lettuce". Well, I can do without lettuce to save my country.
 
Old 02-20-2010, 09:25 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
Location and crop?

H2 A was designed to fail, which it does very well.

Apparently you missed the part where I said growers don't hire workers. I guess I have to explain it to you, field labor is supplied by contractors. If I need a crew, I call the contractor, they supply the workers, they pay the workers, I and the rest of the growers have nothing to do with the field workers except giving them directions.

You want to blame the grower, but that is like blaming the Japanese Army for the bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon, get the facts, then complain, or better yet, get the facts and understand why the system is as it is.

Brittany Spears?


Regarding e verify, who gets it? Does Peter Johannsen get it or just Tony Lopez.

Now to the crux of the problem. Due to the government action or in action, 85% of field workers are indeed illegal. They are illegal because there is no effective guest worker program, and there are not enough citizens lining up for the jobs, now you may say that there are enough citizens to do the work, but the fields are there, and the citizens aren't you figure that one out.
Since 85% are illegal, if e verify was enforced the economy of AG in CA would collapse. The economic impact of losing much of a 40 billion dollar a year industry would be devastating, so now, lets see a rational solution to the problem, shall we?

I have one, you don't I betcha.
I already relayed to you about the unlimited H-2A visas available and yet you persist? The reason you won't find most adult citizens lining up to do farm work is because it doesn't pay enough to support a family and they wouldn't have a chance anyway BECAUSE of the readily available supply of illegal alien workers who will work cheaper. Another drawback is that the illegals are mostly mono-lingual Spanish speakers and the farmers would only hire those who could communicate with them. That is happening in the construction industry also. A crew of mono-lingual Spanish speakers are hired and an English speaking citizen can't get a job in the construction industry because of the language barrier and can't compete with the cheaper wages that an illegal takes.
 
Old 02-20-2010, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 4,719,645 times
Reputation: 815
Quote:
None of your business. We grow several crops which need to be hand sickled, hand dug and sorted, the local teens, groups and neighboring farmers enjoy the work (and pay) very well. Ever hear of Co-op? If you have not, you are bogus. It is sweeping across all states.

If I hired the local teens, groups and neighboring farmers, I'd go broke, white folks just don't work fast enough, and yes, I worked in the fields as a teen. Co-op is fine for small farms, but it won't supply the nation.

The only thing I am missing is your point, why are you even posting if you have nothing to do with anything? How can your argument hold water if you know nothing? What is your argument again?

Apparently these opinions of yours were made up, since nothing I have said could lead anyone to what you posted here.

Blaming the farmer (ok, grower)? I blame those who hire illegal people to do any work. The only farm industry that has been brought to the forefront regarding it being a detriment if illegals left is "lettuce". Well, I can do without lettuce to save my country.

As I mentioned before, you have shown you don't know California farm realities.


Quote:
I already relayed to you about the unlimited H-2A visas available and yet you persist? The reason you won't find most adult citizens lining up to do farm work is because it doesn't pay enough to support a family and they wouldn't have a chance anyway BECAUSE of the readily available supply of illegal alien workers who will work cheaper.

As I mentioned before, the H2A system does not work for field work, that is the fact. Ok, so adult citizens cannot afford to do it, but to say there is a readily available supply of illegal workers who will work cheaper is just not true.
A. illegals have the same expenses as legals, they pay the same taxes and buy the same foods and necessities.
B. the supply of illegals is limited, resulting in the current labor shortage in the fields.
C. The illegals show up, work and get paid the same for their work as legals, why? because no one knows who is legal or not legal.


Another drawback is that the illegals are mostly mono-lingual Spanish speakers and the farmers would only hire those who could communicate with them.

Again, not accurate. Every farm has a MayorDomo, or foreman who is bilingual, the grower does not talk to even the english speaking field workers, he uses the chain of command, his instructions go two places, to the contractor who supplies the labor and the MayorDomo. I think I have stated the grower does not hire field labor, it would be good if that sunk in.




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