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Old 02-12-2010, 05:43 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,822,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
There are always going to be black, white and other Americans at the bottom of the ladder because we all don't have the same capacity to learn and to move up. Many Americans regardless of race prefer blue collar jobs. These Americans should not have to compete with illegal aliens for those jobs.
Illegal alien apologists believe our low-skilled and uneducated Americans are expendable. They donít consider them worthy of earning a living. We have to make room for the peasants from Mexico and other countries whose citizens are seeking a better life. You see, they deserve these jobs, unlike our lazy poor Americans.
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Old 02-12-2010, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,822,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
And yet they are having to, as are poor whites though the professor doesnt note them, because the employers in that neck of the NC woods have no compunction regarding paying as low as they can get away with. So what is to be done?
It isnít simply NC, it's nationwide. How do you propose all of the poor ignorant Americans of every race/ethnicity improve their lives without some source of income? Everyone does not have the mental capacity to attend college. Shall we start eliminating the underachievers? Moreover, why is it alright for illegal aliens to lack skills and an education? Yet, you denigrate their American counterparts.
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Old 02-12-2010, 08:17 PM
 
34,990 posts, read 33,875,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Yes, I get your drift. You support illegal immigration, and you are using your perception of black Americans as being non-achievers as your justification. However, the problem of illegal immigration has no bearing on the educational aspirations, or lack thereof, of black Americans. Do you have the same impression of low-skilled or uneducated whites being displaced by illegal aliens, or is this behavior exclusive to blacks?
Why do you think I support illegal immigration? Quote me please. Your last sentence is completely offensive and has no relation whatsoever to anything I posted -- the opposite in fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
It isn’t simply NC, it's nationwide. How do you propose all of the poor ignorant Americans of every race/ethnicity improve their lives without some source of income? Everyone does not have the mental capacity to attend college. Shall we start eliminating the underachievers? Moreover, why is it alright for illegal aliens to lack skills and an education? Yet, you denigrate their American counterparts.
Ah, please quote where I said anything like this... thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Illegal alien apologists believe our low-skilled and uneducated Americans are expendable. They don’t consider them worthy of earning a living. We have to make room for the peasants from Mexico and other countries whose citizens are seeking a better life. You see, they deserve these jobs, unlike our lazy poor Americans.
I am confident that this entirely unfounded supposition is not some sort of misguided backhanded swipe at me, your phantom illegal alien apologist/supporter of the moment.
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Old 02-12-2010, 08:38 PM
 
3,856 posts, read 3,165,444 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Illegal alien apologists believe our low-skilled and uneducated Americans are expendable. They donít consider them worthy of earning a living. We have to make room for the peasants from Mexico and other countries whose citizens are seeking a better life. You see, they deserve these jobs, unlike our lazy poor Americans.
You are correct Benicar,Illegal Alien apologists see Black Americans and all Americans as expendable,if Illegals are allowed to invade at the present rate it will not only be those at the lower rungs that will suffer it will be all of us.We will have to learn the invaders language and culture,what a joke.Proffesor Gates(remember Obama's beer summit) has an on going program on KCET/PBS that follows Americans ancestry and DNA,What really opened my eyes was how people came from all over the world and within 1 generation assimilated and learned the language(yes this included immigrants from Latin America) sent their children off to war to fight for this great country.
Now you have that press #2 for Spanish BS on answering sevices and Bi lingual forms,signs and all,what a waste of tax payer money.These Illegals and their supporters are getting special treatment at everyone else's expense,this is true discrimination,when you show favoritism to 1 group at the expense of all others you are discriminating against the rest.
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Old 02-12-2010, 09:36 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,080,559 times
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After reading this, there are a several things that pop out. Firstly, it focuses narrowly on one sector of the economy (agri-business). African Americans have seen unemployment steadily rising with the collapse of manufacturing in the United States. Since African Americans, on the whole, have lower educational attainment...the collapse of manufacturing jobs decimated the African American middle class. Secondly, it hints that if illegal immigrants were to ALL go, that the unemployment rate would significantly drop for African Americans. Seeing how illegal immigrants comprise a MUCH smaller percentage of the population, this hardly would be the case. Thirdly, towards the end illegal immigrants became generalized to Latin immigrants (not denoting legality). Fourthly, the fact that illegal immigrant salaries were HIGHER than African American salaries (the 2007 median income was higher) implies no wage depression.

The bigger reasons are mostly due to the overall decline and transistion to a service/information based economy along with a cycle of poverty and race based stereotypes on the part of hiring managers.
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Old 02-13-2010, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,822,205 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
Why do you think I support illegal immigration? Quote me please. Your last sentence is completely offensive and has no relation whatsoever to anything I posted -- the opposite in fact.
Ah, please quote where I said anything like this... thanksI am confident that this entirely unfounded supposition is not some sort of misguided backhanded swipe at me, your phantom illegal alien apologist/supporter of the moment.
How soon we forget. You used to post on this forum on a regular basis, so your stance is known. Or, have you had a change of heart?

I donít need to quote you. This isnít a one-way street. Assume much?
Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
She, like you, is presuming that black citizens must necessarily remain at the bottom rung of the ladder, and that they're being crowded off the ladder from below -- not encouraged to move up it, if you get my drift.
Now, back on topic.

Illegal immigration is detrimental not only to poor blacks in this country, but millions of citizens of every race/ethnicity who for various reasons must now compete for the crumbs. Sadly, they are in competition, not with fellow citizens, but with unlawful foreigners. There is something very wrong with this picture; and something very wrong with those who endorse it.

Education is great, and I encourage it. However, citizens need jobs NOW. Some of our citizens will be forced, at least temporarily, to accept the ďbottom rungĒ of the ladder. Should they be denied a job because illegal aliens will work for less, and are willing to resort to fraud and deception to do so? Furthermore, many donít have the luxury of enrolling in college for 4+ years, or opting for training, because their families must NOW be fed, and must NOW have shelter. Tell me, how do they support their families while they pursue an education? Moreover, who will foot the bill for their college or training?

Dr. Swain is not espousing black victimization, nor am I. However, we both realize the immediate need for jobs. Iím sorry, but education is a long-term solution, and even then, it is not a viable solution for all.
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Old 02-13-2010, 07:34 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,156,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
How soon we forget. You used to post on this forum on a regular basis, so your stance is known. Or, have you had a change of heart?

I donít need to quote you. This isnít a one-way street. Assume much?


Now, back on topic.

Illegal immigration is detrimental not only to poor blacks in this country, but millions of citizens of every race/ethnicity who for various reasons must now compete for the crumbs. Sadly, they are in competition, not with fellow citizens, but with unlawful foreigners. There is something very wrong with this picture; and something very wrong with those who endorse it.

Education is great, and I encourage it. However, citizens need jobs NOW. Some of our citizens will be forced, at least temporarily, to accept the ďbottom rungĒ of the ladder. Should they be denied a job because illegal aliens will work for less, and are willing to resort to fraud and deception to do so? Furthermore, many donít have the luxury of enrolling in college for 4+ years, or opting for training, because their families must NOW be fed, and must NOW have shelter. Tell me, how do they support their families while they pursue an education? Moreover, who will foot the bill for their college or training?

Dr. Swain is not espousing black victimization, nor am I. However, we both realize the immediate need for jobs. Iím sorry, but education is a long-term solution, and even then, it is not a viable solution for all.
You're exactly right, Benicar.
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Old 02-13-2010, 07:59 AM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 4,088,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
How soon we forget. You used to post on this forum on a regular basis, so your stance is known. Or, have you had a change of heart?

I donít need to quote you. This isnít a one-way street. Assume much?


Now, back on topic.

Illegal immigration is detrimental not only to poor blacks in this country, but millions of citizens of every race/ethnicity who for various reasons must now compete for the crumbs. Sadly, they are in competition, not with fellow citizens, but with unlawful foreigners. There is something very wrong with this picture; and something very wrong with those who endorse it.

Education is great, and I encourage it. However, citizens need jobs NOW. Some of our citizens will be forced, at least temporarily, to accept the ďbottom rungĒ of the ladder. Should they be denied a job because illegal aliens will work for less, and are willing to resort to fraud and deception to do so? Furthermore, many donít have the luxury of enrolling in college for 4+ years, or opting for training, because their families must NOW be fed, and must NOW have shelter. Tell me, how do they support their families while they pursue an education? Moreover, who will foot the bill for their college or training?

Dr. Swain is not espousing black victimization, nor am I. However, we both realize the immediate need for jobs. Iím sorry, but education is a long-term solution, and even then, it is not a viable solution for all.
Here's another thing Dr. Swain realizes and that many American are becomming aware of...

"The new white nationalists have jettisoned the tactics of those organizations and are smarter, more sophisticated, and more politically adroit. Their members are not blue-collar rednecks but are likely to be college-educated, financially secure, middle-class Americans. With slick, packaged politics, they have concealed the radicalism of their views and are gaining ground in mainstream America.


Hot-button issues including affirmative action, black-on-white crime and immigration policies are being exploited by the new white nationalists to woo mainstream whites into extremist movements. They exploit real racial and ethnic policy concerns which should be given a forum for intelligent discourse."
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Old 02-13-2010, 08:04 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,080,559 times
Reputation: 822
How soon we forget. You used to post on this forum on a regular basis, so your stance is known. Or, have you had a change of heart?

I donít need to quote you. This isnít a one-way street. Assume much?

Yeah, you made a claim...please support it.

Now, back on topic.

Illegal immigration is detrimental not only to poor blacks in this country, but millions of citizens of every race/ethnicity who for various reasons must now compete for the crumbs. Sadly, they are in competition, not with fellow citizens, but with unlawful foreigners. There is something very wrong with this picture; and something very wrong with those who endorse it.

Is it possible that those in power are possbily neglecting the needs of the poor in general? That maybe this overall neglect is a bigger factor than illegal immigration?

Education is great, and I encourage it. However, citizens need jobs NOW. Some of our citizens will be forced, at least temporarily, to accept the ďbottom rungĒ of the ladder. Should they be denied a job because illegal aliens will work for less, and are willing to resort to fraud and deception to do so? Furthermore, many donít have the luxury of enrolling in college for 4+ years, or opting for training, because their families must NOW be fed, and must NOW have shelter. Tell me, how do they support their families while they pursue an education? Moreover, who will foot the bill for their college or training?

Per your article, it stated that illegal immigrants had a HIGHER median income than African Americans. This would not be consistent with the bolded sentence. Also, educational attainment is MUCH bigger of a problem that has NOTHING to do with illegal immigration. This, along with other factors, contributes to the cycle of poverty.

Dr. Swain is not espousing black victimization, nor am I. However, we both realize the immediate need for jobs. Iím sorry, but education is a long-term solution, and even then, it is not a viable solution for all.

It seems as if she didn't take other factors into consideration. With the decline in manual labor across the board, education isn't a "long term" solution. Rather, the effects of obtaining a degree are seen quite quickly. Overall, increasing educational attainment is a VERY viable solution. 33% of African Americans have not graduated high school. Only 14% of African Americans have graduated college (compared to approx. 30% of the overall population). Thus it quickly becomes clear that educational attainment is a large issue within the African American community. For the community at large, education is a bigger issue than illegal immigration.

There is something to be said concerning the need of vocational training in high schools. You are right when you state that college is not for everyone. However, in the age of green jobs and high tech jobs...vocational training is imperative.
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Old 02-13-2010, 08:24 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,156,932 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
Here's another thing Dr. Swain realizes and that many American are becomming aware of...

"The new white nationalists have jettisoned the tactics of those organizations and are smarter, more sophisticated, and more politically adroit. Their members are not blue-collar rednecks but are likely to be college-educated, financially secure, middle-class Americans. With slick, packaged politics, they have concealed the radicalism of their views and are gaining ground in mainstream America.

Hot-button issues including affirmative action, black-on-white crime and immigration policies are being exploited by the new white nationalists to woo mainstream whites into extremist movements. They exploit real racial and ethnic policy concerns which should be given a forum for intelligent discourse."
Who cares what white nationalists think or do? They do not represent the views of the majority of anti-illegal immigration Americans in this country.
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