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Old 06-01-2007, 12:41 PM
 
1,735 posts, read 4,138,522 times
Reputation: 1436

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Here are some interesting quotes;

On Monday, Robert Rector of the Heritage Foundation stunned some senators who heard his argument that continuing, under family-based immigration, to import a low-skilled population will cost the welfare state far more than the immigrants' contributions to the economy and government. He argued that low-skilled immigrants are costly to the welfare state at every point in their life cycle, and are very costly when elderly. Just the 9 million to 10 million illegal adults already here will, if given amnesty, cost an average of $300,000 -- cumulatively, more than $2.5 trillion -- in various entitlements over 30 years.
Under current immigration policies, America is importing another underclass, one ''with the potential to expand indefinitely,'' according to Heather Mac Donald of the Manhattan Institute. To sentimentalists who cling to ''the myth of the redeeming power of Hispanic family values, the Hispanic work ethic, and Hispanic virtue,'' she says: From 1990 to 2004, Hispanics accounted for 92 percent of the increase in poor people. Only 53 percent of Hispanics earn high school diplomas, the lowest among American ethnic groups. Half of all children born to Hispanic-Americans in 2005 were born out of wedlock -- a predictor of social pathologies.

Hereís a great article [url]http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/sr14.cfm[url]

Sensible immigration policy must arise from more than monomania about the disturbing fact that at least 12 million immigrants are here illegally. Affirming the rule of law is, however, where to begin because when a large and somewhat cohesive cohort succeeds in living in defiance of the law, the scofflaw spirit can have myriad manifestations. Writing in last summer's City Journal, Heather Mac Donald of the Manhattan
Institute gave a sobering example: "Protecting one form of lawbreaking may require protecting others as well. The city of Maywood in Los Angeles County declared itself a sanctuary zone for illegal aliens this year. Then it got rid of its drunk-driving checkpoints, because they were nabbing too many illegal aliens. Next, this 96 percent Latino city, almost half of whose adult population lacks a ninth-grade education, disbanded its police traffic division entirely, so that illegals wouldn't need to worry about having their cars towed for being unlicensed."
Mac Donald says that although some data suggest that many Hispanic immigrants live in increasing cultural and linguistic self-segregation, clearly some have assimilated in the sense of acquiring one of the nation's unpleasant current attributes, the entitlement mentality: We are here, therefore we are entitled to be here.
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Old 06-01-2007, 02:44 PM
 
1,156 posts, read 1,875,396 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
You have two choices, either make them legal in some sense or get rid of them. Getting rid of them would ruin the economy in the West and the entire country, so the only realistic solution is to make them legal.

Ironically the same people that are complaining about this today are the ones that prevented good legislation being passed years ago. Millions of work permits needed to be issued years ago, but the politicians couldn't do it. But the economy still needed the workers so they came illegally.
All this is the biggest untruth I've heard in awhile. Our economy was fine years ago and cost of living was affordable and wages were decent in Ca. It was good living and low pay jobs meant still being able to afford rent. When the illegals started coming in mass numbers our housing prices shot way up and wages went down or kept the same. Crime has soared to the extreme. The finanical experts have repeatedly stated that if illegals left, the cost of living would plummet downwards and wages would rise. Remember, the more people there are, the more jobs are needed. The less people there are, the less jobs are needed. Our citizens were fine before illegals came and they will be fine after they leave!
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Old 06-01-2007, 02:51 PM
 
1,156 posts, read 1,875,396 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
I buy the economic argument that it would. You can't remove millions of heads from your work force and except everything to work out. Furthermore the Mexicans do work that your average American isn't interested in doing. Of course if you paid more you'd get more interest, but even at modest wages you're not going to find many Americans that want to pick fruit etc.

This isn't "simple economics" its naive economics. If you get rid of illegals then the work will go outside of the country not to American workers. Not only that exports would drop dramatically in very important sectors like agriculture. Why would another country buy our food stuffs when they can get it 10% cheaper from Brazil etc?
Totally untrue, again.
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Old 06-01-2007, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 3,325,728 times
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Quote:
These tech workers are paid 1/3rd of what an American tech worker is paid
Have a citation for this? They are paid less in some sense, I never said otherwise.
But why would someone with an education in India come here so they can be poor?
Quote:
The big companies have gotten so greedy that they would rather put up with the hassles of out sourcing to increase their bottom line than keep Americans employed.
Again companies care about their profit thats all. They aren't out to make America a better price or keep Americans employed. This isn't anything new, this is basic capitalism.
Quote:
Our economy was fine years ago and cost of living was affordable and wages were decent in Ca. It was good living and low pay jobs meant still being able to afford rent. When the illegals started coming in mass numbers our housing prices shot way up and wages went down or kept the same. Crime has soared to the extreme.
California's economy is still very strong, so I'm not sure what your point is exactly. Wages have decreased for some jobs, but this doesnt mean the economy is doing worse. Also blaming illegals with no money for the housing situation makes little sense. The housing bubble was caused by lax lending standards not people that can hardly afford homes. If you haven't noticed housing prices in CA are going down, did some illegals leave? No, rather sub-prime and exotic loans are no longer being offered.
Quote:
The finanical experts have repeatedly stated that if illegals left, the cost of living would plummet downwards and wages would rise.
I'm not sure if you just having housing in mind here or not. But this is pretty much contradictory (please do cite the financial expert that suggested this).Wages are going to go up put prices down? Do you suggest that companies are working on such large margins that they can increase wages and decrease prices at the same time? Now if "illegals" left the economy companies would be forced to increase wages to find workers, but why would they lower costs? Just to be nice?
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Old 06-01-2007, 08:35 PM
 
1,735 posts, read 4,138,522 times
Reputation: 1436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
Have a citation for this? They are paid less in some sense, I never said otherwise.
But why would someone with an education in India come here so they can be poor?
Citation? How about every IT rag printed since the early 90ís. They have been covering the pay difference between American vs foreign workers, but Iím sure you missed them since you were in diapers in the 90ís.
You donít have a clue about these people from India, or any of the foreign high tech workers. There living standards in their country are no where near our living standards. Where as an American HT worker needs at least $75k per year someone from India would be living like a king for $30k.
You also donít have a clue about how big business in the 90ís cried to congress that they needed more H1B visas to fill HT jobs even though plenty of laid off American HT workers could fill them, but not for 1/3rd the pay.
The rub now( and I predicted it then) that the standards in India would catch up and the hassles of managing workers in India would not be worth it once the pay scales caught up. Now these business are finding out that Sh*$$*ng on American HT workers wasnít such a good idea. Most have found other means of employment and schools arenít able to recruit students to pursue degrees in computer related fields.
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Old 06-02-2007, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 3,325,728 times
Reputation: 592
Quote:
Citation? How about every IT rag printed since the early 90’s.
So you have no citation? I suppose instead you think your ad hominems prove your point. Go figure.
Quote:
You don’t have a clue about these people from India, or any of the foreign high tech workers. There living standards in their country are no where near our living standards. Where as an American HT worker needs at least $75k per year someone from India would be living like a king for $30k.
Having known some peole here on H1B visas, I think I have a clue. People that come on H1B visas live in the US so the cost of living in India is completely irrelevant they aren't in India they are in the US. Therefore their pay needs to be enough for them to live here.

It should be noted too that H1B visas aren't just about getting cheap labor, they are about importing latent. Some people coming here on H1B get paid rather well (100k+ a year), but that is because they are very good at what they do.
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Old 06-02-2007, 10:40 AM
 
451 posts, read 1,016,327 times
Reputation: 342
Quote:
RedNC
Just give up replying to Humane Humanoid, it is obvious that this person is Anti-American, every single post Humanoid posts is to bash Americans or should I say "White Europeans." Every post oozes with "I know this and I know that" yet, Humanoid never backs it up with any articles or data. It is a constant and absolute hatred toward America and the American worker. It is plain to see that Humanoid has some kind of disturbed hatred of America. It is also obvious that Humane Humanoid is a criminal sympathizer who cares nothing about the rule of law.

Last edited by chloedog; 06-02-2007 at 11:04 AM..
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Old 06-03-2007, 10:06 PM
 
19,183 posts, read 27,744,233 times
Reputation: 4000
Personal attack? Isn't there a note somewhere about that being against the rules?
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Old 06-03-2007, 10:37 PM
 
451 posts, read 1,016,327 times
Reputation: 342
Quote:
saganista
Personal attack? Isn't there a note somewhere about that being against the rules?
It is you again! I can send you a picture of me, maybe then you can throw darts or something at it seeing as how you are hell bent on trying to claim some infraction that I have committed. Please show me the "Personal Attack", I was just stating a fact. Saganista, is him upset? Is him mad that little chloedog is filled with "bile and hatred"? Awww...there...there. I guess calling an individual a "Token Black" is not against the rules? I also guess you trolling around posting rebuttals to all my posts are not against "the rules"?

Last edited by chloedog; 06-03-2007 at 10:45 PM..
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Old 06-03-2007, 11:29 PM
 
1,156 posts, read 1,875,396 times
Reputation: 317
Nirvana-Guy, thank you for the truth in your excellent posts here, you are speaking much like Ross Perot who is an expert on the economics of America. Pay no attention to that other poster. Perot wanted to build up America financially from the INSIDE and would have if he became President. It can still be done with the right president/government. Less workers here, the less products and services will be needed. Greedy business owners and corporations are spreading lies unlimited and believe that we will all believe them.
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