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Old 05-30-2007, 12:44 AM
 
Location: The best country in the world: the USA
1,497 posts, read 4,374,366 times
Reputation: 727

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The new census report says America's now one third minority. And in four states — California, New Mexico, Texas and Hawaii — whites are the minority. So with the infusion of as many as 20-30 million new citizens in the next 10 years the landscape of America will absolutely change.

Finally, the happiest guy in the country tonight is Senator Edward Kennedy because this amnesty is a boon to the Democratic Party. Most of the new citizens will become Democrats simply because of entitlements and peer pressure. Most of the illegals aliens in the USA are uneducated, are angry and dislike the USA and are only here for the jobs, and many are simply lazy and sell drugs or are on welfare. It's not pretty to have only 1 party running the country forever. That is NOT Democracy... that is the perfect setting for Tyranny and intolerance.

But when you look at the Amnesty bill (which politicians REFUSE to admit it is an amnesty bill, which it is, and if you cannot see, you are either blind or not the sharpest tool in the shed ) in detail it's an amazingly badly written bill. For example, there are at least 30,000 illegal immigrants who belong to gangs, which are violent, which are drug dealing.

Those 30,000 gang members, according to analysis I got a few minutes ago, would all be grandfathered in under a Z-visa and could not be deported. Now, I mean, this is as close to madness as anything I've seen in modern government.

The White House ALSO knocked out a provision to require that illegal immigrants at least pay back taxes. So every idiot American and legal immigrant pays taxes, but illegals don't??!? WTH?!?

This bill is a disaster. It is a failure. It should be defeated. It should cease to exist. The Senate ought to go back to regular business. They ought to try to produce an immigration bill through the regular committee process out in the open, where people can look at it, amend it, refine it, criticize it.

But this particular deal is as big a disaster as any Republican has had in my lifetime. And I predict if, in fact, it gets through the Senate, it will be a disaster for every Republican senator and for a lot of Democratic senators ... I think the anger is bipartisan. NO ONE other than large corporations and dumb ****s like George Bush (whom I formerly supported) want this to pass.

Tax-paying Americans do not want to be told that international gang members are going to be amnestied. And believe me, if they only have 24-hours to do a background check, these people WILL not have their backgrounds looked at. What American wants to be told that, as long as you are illegal you don't have to pay your back taxes?? Americans also don't want to be told that their desire to enforce the law means that they're bigots.

The Amensty bill (whatever it is they want to call it) is a shame and is the begining of the end of the USA. Makes you wnat NOT have any kids... after all, who would wnat to raise kids to live in an extremely ****ed up country where newly-legalized illegal aliens work for 1/2 of what US workers make and take all the jobs?

Any thoughts on any of this...??
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Old 05-30-2007, 01:06 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 3,324,115 times
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You have two choices, either make them legal in some sense or get rid of them. Getting rid of them would ruin the economy in the West and the entire country, so the only realistic solution is to make them legal.

Ironically the same people that are complaining about this today are the ones that prevented good legislation being passed years ago. Millions of work permits needed to be issued years ago, but the politicians couldn't do it. But the economy still needed the workers so they came illegally.
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Old 05-30-2007, 01:50 AM
 
Location: The best country in the world: the USA
1,497 posts, read 4,374,366 times
Reputation: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
You have two choices, either make them legal in some sense or get rid of them. Getting rid of them would ruin the economy in the West and the entire country, so the only realistic solution is to make them legal.

Ironically the same people that are complaining about this today are the ones that prevented good legislation being passed years ago. Millions of work permits needed to be issued years ago, but the politicians couldn't do it. But the economy still needed the workers so they came illegally.
No, you don't have to run around deporting people. You make them leave by attrition through enforcement of existing immigration laws.

Ha ha... you are buying into the large corporate arguments that removing illegals would ruin the economy?? Oh please!! Right after WW II, the middle class appeared out of nowhere in the USA!

Why? Because people were valuable and companies had a ton of jobs to be filled and no illegals to come in and take these jobs, so companies had to pay US workers nice wages and offer benefits toi attract workers. The reason corporate America is trying to push the illegal alien amnesty right now is because they do NOT wnat to pay US workers anything and can pay illegals (or newly-legalized illegals through the Bush-Kennedy amnesty) close to nothing. This is why the US middle class is disappearing... liberals like Lou Dobbs and conservatives like O'Reilly all agree on that.

Simple economics: you get rid of the illegals and companies will be forced to pay US workers decent wages to get jobs filled. That is why ONLY corporate America is interested in the amnesty and open borders.
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Old 05-30-2007, 02:11 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 3,324,115 times
Reputation: 592
Quote:
Ha ha... you are buying into the large corporate arguments that removing illegals would ruin the economy??
I buy the economic argument that it would. You can't remove millions of heads from your work force and except everything to work out. Furthermore the Mexicans do work that your average American isn't interested in doing. Of course if you paid more you'd get more interest, but even at modest wages you're not going to find many Americans that want to pick fruit etc.
Quote:
Simple economics: you get rid of the illegals and companies will be forced to pay US workers decent wages to get jobs filled.
This isn't "simple economics" its naive economics. If you get rid of illegals then the work will go outside of the country not to American workers. Not only that exports would drop dramatically in very important sectors like agriculture. Why would another country buy our food stuffs when they can get it 10% cheaper from Brazil etc?
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Old 05-30-2007, 02:52 AM
 
2,432 posts, read 6,003,968 times
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I really don't blame the Senate for this mess, I blame Bush. He's the one pushing this agenda. An illegal alien amnesty program is just about the only legacy he can have except for the Iraq War.

Bush knows we have somewhere between 5 and 10 thousand illegals sneaking into the US over the Mexican border every day, and he does nothing to stop it. He chooses not to stop it. He wants them here because he has a North American Union agenda. And he knows if he accomplishes it he will ruin the republican party and he doesn't care.
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Old 05-30-2007, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Toledo
3,861 posts, read 7,416,007 times
Reputation: 3646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
You have two choices, either make them legal in some sense or get rid of them. Getting rid of them would ruin the economy in the West and the entire country, so the only realistic solution is to make them legal.

Ironically the same people that are complaining about this today are the ones that prevented good legislation being passed years ago. Millions of work permits needed to be issued years ago, but the politicians couldn't do it. But the economy still needed the workers so they came illegally.
It's all about the bottom line. Even if our nation turns into a third world country. But hey! At least we won't have to pay $5 for a bag of potatoes.
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Old 05-30-2007, 09:54 AM
 
1,484 posts, read 3,697,700 times
Reputation: 731
Default really

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
You have two choices, either make them legal in some sense or get rid of them. Getting rid of them would ruin the economy in the West and the entire country, so the only realistic solution is to make them legal.

Ironically the same people that are complaining about this today are the ones that prevented good legislation being passed years ago. Millions of work permits needed to be issued years ago, but the politicians couldn't do it. But the economy still needed the workers so they came illegally.
I didnt know that we could start disputing and changing our laws to certain peoples financial benefit? Our laws shouldnt be for sale and this country survived (alot better also) with the current mass of illegals. You and others can try to rationalize making them legal all you want but THEY ARE ILLEGAL BECAUSE THEY BROKE OUR LAWS.
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Old 05-30-2007, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 3,324,115 times
Reputation: 592
Quote:
You and others can try to rationalize making them legal all you want but THEY ARE ILLEGAL BECAUSE THEY BROKE OUR LAWS.
I care about the solution that 1.) Solutions the problem and 2.) Costs the least. Giving current illegals legal work status and locking down the borders would solve the problem and it will also be more cost effective then other solutions.

Quote:
It's all about the bottom line. Even if our nation turns into a third world country.
The US is already on a financial tight-robe. Any big economic problems could cause the fall of the American economy.
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Old 05-30-2007, 01:03 PM
 
Location: The best country in the world: the USA
1,497 posts, read 4,374,366 times
Reputation: 727
Thumbs down Another outrage!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
I buy the economic argument that it would. You can't remove millions of heads from your work force and except everything to work out. Furthermore the Mexicans do work that your average American isn't interested in doing. Of course if you paid more you'd get more interest, but even at modest wages you're not going to find many Americans that want to pick fruit etc.
Yes you CAN remove millions of heads from the workforce. It has happened in every war that the US has fought... peoplem died during wars (like The Civil War and WWII and the economy SOARED! Why? Simply because the driving force of the economy, the class of people who consume the most, the class of people who maintain the "Consumer Index" is the MIDDLE class, not the rich corporate cronies who are pushing for the amnesty along with Bush and the Dem-Controlled Congress. These guys in the top tier of America only care about the Corporate bottom line. They are forgetting that the dying class, the Middle Class, is what spends the most money and that is the class being destroyed slowy in America today.

Again, that is NOT me, Nirvana, talking. This is economists on PBS, that is left wingers like Lou Dobbs and riught wingers like O'Reilly. These guys realize that this amnesty will seal the economic future of the Middle class (although O'Reilly is really pissed off, he is kinda OK with this amnesty as he might not yet realize the "security triggers" in this bill are an absolute joke).

Forget about foodstuff. Other probably ground beef raised in Texas, the US is NOT competing for fiood sales overseas. As you point out, Brazil can sell food cheaper than the US so it wouldn't buy food from the USA. The food we produce is primarily for internal consumption. Have we forgotten that the food imports we buy have substandard quality?? Has anyone forgotten the cat and dog food kills pets? Know why? These came from substandard food plans in China..... yep, do a Google search. How about the Chinese toothpaste that killed 10 people? Yeah.... we CANNOT reply on foreign sources for our food, medicine, and hygene items. That is why the US must guard its food supply. Forget selling food overseas, we only need food for ourselves so some "food-provinding nation" overseas cannot hold the US hostage by withholding food or jacking up prices insanely or by having that country's gov't be taken over by a quack communist dictator like Hugo Chavez.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
I care about the solution that 1.) Solutions the problem and 2.) Costs the least. Giving current illegals legal work status and locking down the borders would solve the problem and it will also be more cost effective then other solutions.

The US is already on a financial tight-robe. Any big economic problems could cause the fall of the American economy.
The US financial situation is on a tighrope because the US is spending too much, importing more than 3 times what it exports. The "Free-Trade agreements" are killing us and ONLY benefiting large coporations. You are hearing this from a Republican-leaning capitalist.

You say the US economy is on a tighrope.... ok fine. So we LEGALIZE 20 million illegals and then have them sponsor every member of their family. If the economy continues to go downhill, then we will be STUCK with 20 - 30 millions now-legal aliens and if the jobs ituation worsen, we are totally screwed. It is insanity to think these people will leave if the US economy takes a major downturn. They will stay here, DEMAND and receive WELFARE which will be proptly denied to US citizens and most likely engage in criminal activity.

The problem here is that new "guestworker" amnesty has ZERO enforcement provisions. NOTHING will happen to illegals who don't register. NOTHING will happen to people who cross the border in the future. NOTHING will happen to people who forge documents. Only 6,000 new agents will be added to the border (for a total of 18,000 agents) while we have 1 million people crossing over every year.

It is a joke and you know it. This amnesty bill is basically paving the way for the next amnesty bill in 10 years. It is MUCH worse than the 1986 amnesty in terms of enforcement. Drug dealers and gang members will all pass the "background check" because the FBI will NEVER be able to clear 12 million background checks in 1 year. They are not able to clear people's backgrounds right now with thier current workload, so the Bush-Kennedy "24-hour background check" is basically a way for them to allow drug dealer, gang members, and all sorts of criminals to stay in the USA.

Ridiculous. No wonder the future of America looks so gloomy. America isself-destructing like the Romans did.... you do NOT open the gates to the "barbarian invaders" and you do not give citizenship to the foreign invaders. Just as the Romans made these mistakes, the US is doing the same....
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Old 05-30-2007, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 3,324,115 times
Reputation: 592
Quote:
It has happened in every war that the US has fought...
No war has removed 10 million heads from the economy, also a lot of jobs are created during a war so its not even a good analogy.
Quote:
The food we produce is primarily for internal consumption.
You have no idea what you are talking about. 8% of our export economy is argiculture. If you are interested in agricultural exports see:

ERS/USDA Data - Foreign Agricultural Trade of the United States (FATUS)

Furthermore, I never suggested that Brazil can produce cheaper food than the US. I suggested that if you increase labor costs then other countries with strong agriculture will become cheaper and hence reduce american exports. Most food stuffs can be produced cheaper in the US then in countries like Brazil or even China.
Quote:
Have we forgotten that the food imports we buy have substandard quality??
In general this isn't true. Also do you stop eating fruit and vegetables in the winter? You better stop, because they are all imports. If you haven't noticed fruits and veggies don't grow well in the winter. But fortunately for us when its winter for us its summer in South America, so we import our produce from them during the winter. Personally I like to be able to eat fruit during the winter, so I'm glad we import food = )

Anyhow, middle class this middle class that. The American middle class is dying because they aren't learning new skills. The world has changed you can no longer be middle class while working low skill jobs. If you want to make more learn new skills. Many corporations have to import workers from India and China because they can't find enough talent in the US. And just to note, these workers are being paid well enough to be "middle class" in america.

Anyhow, this is the problem with the bigots. They just don't like Mexicans, they don't want to look at data nor solve the problem in an efficient way. The immigration problem is a very hard problem to solve, anybody that thinks it can be solved by simply deporting millions of Mexicans is extremely naive.
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