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Old 02-18-2010, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,704,952 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Dakar View Post
I am going to call off any further debate with Mr. ArizonaBear because, for one reason or another, he seems to live in some sort of alternate reality where he thinks mass deportations are not only possible but on the verge of happening. Where one stands on this issue aside, any sane thinking person knows that will never happen anywhere in the near future. I could go through the reasons why one by one but I will not because I have a feeling that Mr. ArizonaBear secretly knows that his thinking is wishful at best.
I stand by what I stated; the 'writing is on the wall' concerning the growing hostility against illegal aliens and their enablers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Dakar View Post
I am not up in arms about undocumented immigration from Mexico because I welcome our hermanos and hermanas from the south with open arms. They have benefitted this country immensely, politically, cultutally, and economically. Why do you assume that I would be up in arms if England attacked Mexico? That is what you mean by Anglos right? You must because a significant portion of the ground soldiers in the US military that would be doing so-called invasion are African-Americans and what you like to call "anchor babies." Are you OK with all the "anchor babies" who are fighting for you in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Which means nothing: most people in the US Armed forces are Americans whose parents are here legally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Dakar View Post
You seem to split American citizens up between Latinos and Anglos. You also lump all Latinos together and frequently associate them with undocumented immigrants as you did with your "Hispanic takeover" statement. Do you mean American citizen Hispanics or just illegal Mexicans. Your xenophobia shows clearly. It must be difficult for you to try and constantly hide it through editing yourself.
Unfortunately; with the notable exception of 'You don't speak for me', most Hispanic advocacy groups indeed have a 'tribal mentality' with illegal aliens. And; quite frankly, such insolence is a slap in the face of those Latinos (especially those that are not White) who are true blue Americans and/or immigrated here legally.
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Old 02-18-2010, 05:08 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,182,536 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Dakar View Post
I am going to call off any further debate with Mr. ArizonaBear because, for one reason or another, he seems to live in some sort of alternate reality where he thinks mass deportations are not only possible but on the verge of happening. Where one stands on this issue aside, any sane thinking person knows that will never happen anywhere in the near future. I could go through the reasons why one by one but I will not because I have a feeling that Mr. ArizonaBear secretly knows that his thinking is wishful at best.



I am not up in arms about undocumented immigration from Mexico because I welcome our hermanos and hermanas from the south with open arms. They have benefitted this country immensely, politically, cultutally, and economically. Why do you assume that I would be up in arms if England attacked Mexico? That is what you mean by Anglos right? You must because a significant portion of the ground soldiers in the US military that would be doing so-called invasion are African-Americans and what you like to call "anchor babies." Are you OK with all the "anchor babies" who are fighting for you in Iraq and Afghanistan?

You seem to split American citizens up between Latinos and Anglos. You also lump all Latinos together and frequently associate them with undocumented immigrants as you did with your "Hispanic takeover" statement. Do you mean American citizen Hispanics or just illegal Mexicans. Your xenophobia shows clearly. It must be difficult for you to try and constantly hide it through editing yourself.
Why do you welcome your so-called "hermanos" into this country ILLEGALLY though? Why no respect for your own country's immigration laws? Are you admitting that you consider "your" people as those of your own ethnicity rather than your fellow Americans?

No one is saying that Hispanics and all other cultures haven't benefitted our country in some way but what has that to do with illegal immigration?

My analogy wasn't about England but Americans of white European ancestry who are Americans. I could just as easily have used a Chinese invasion in my analogy, doesn't matter. I didn't use the word attack either. I said what if they were to invade Mexico by the millions illegally would you welcome a complete demographic change to Mexico including their culture and language? You know darn well you wouldn't.

This isn't about anchor babies either. It is about those who are here illegallly. Yes, it is true by virtue of that they gave birth to U.S. citizens because of the erroneous interpretation of the 14th but they are considered citizens anyway and I will also consider them that also until our laws have changed.

It is far too many Hispanic citizens that are splitting THEMSELVES from other Americans, not Me! They do this by advocating for this illegal invasion. I have nothing against Hispanic citizens who stand up for the rule of law. So get that straight.

I explained to you that what I was talking about was a Hispanic takever only due to illegal immigration. I also said that was unnatural. I also said that Hispanic citizens don't fit into that catagory. You might want to go back and read what I ACTUALLY said rather than resorting to calling me a xenophone. I have no fear of strangers as long as they come here legally. What part of that don't you understand?

When I edit myself it is usually because I had used incorrect grammar or spelling. I don't get how you are trying to make that into something else.
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Old 02-18-2010, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Indiana
183 posts, read 205,769 times
Reputation: 44
I have a question. If they fix this and make so that children born by illegals in our country are also illegal then this is what I want to know. Lets say there is an illegal woman here that already gave birth to an anchor baby that is now a US citizen but the mother is still illegal. This gets fixed. the child will still be a US citizen and she an illegal but what if she bares another baby or 2 in our country? that child/ren will be illegal too but will the family get to stay because of that 1 US child? If they are going to fix this is there any way to repair it so that these children born by illegals have their citizenship taken away from them?
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Old 02-18-2010, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,252,886 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by [B
ArizonaBear[/b];12954141]No; you are the one who is not facing reality. Remember those illegal 'immigrants rights' marches back in May 2006? That series of events enraged many Americans (including myself) who would not have been averse to a limited amnesty, including DREAMies. The damage has been done and the ripples are spreading.
I was there....

YouTube - Lou Dobbs - Mexican flag raised in Maywood, California

Last edited by mkfarnam; 02-18-2010 at 05:43 PM..
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Old 02-18-2010, 05:38 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,182,536 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommylee963 View Post
I have a question. If they fix this and make so that children born by illegals in our country are also illegal then this is what I want to know. Lets say there is an illegal woman here that already gave birth to an anchor baby that is now a US citizen but the mother is still illegal. This gets fixed. the child will still be a US citizen and she an illegal but what if she bares another baby or 2 in our country? that child/ren will be illegal too but will the family get to stay because of that 1 US child? If they are going to fix this is there any way to repair it so that these children born by illegals have their citizenship taken away from them?
In reality changing birthright citizenship won't strip those already deemed as citizens of their citizenship status. Any births from illegal alien parents from that point forward will however not be granted citizenship. The bill that is being pushed is for at least one parent to be a citizen of this country in order for a newborn to gain birthright citizenship. As for those in country illegally or after citizenship status is changed, their children born on our soil should not be used as leverage for their parents to remain here. They can take them back to the homeland with them where they will enjoy dual citizenship.
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Old 02-18-2010, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Indiana
183 posts, read 205,769 times
Reputation: 44
quote/"I am not up in arms about undocumented immigration from Mexico because I welcome our hermanos and hermanas from the south with open arms. They have benefitted this country immensely, politically, cultutally, and economically. Why do you assume that I would be up in arms if England attacked Mexico? That is what you mean by Anglos right? You must because a significant portion of the ground soldiers in the US military that would be doing so-called invasion are African-Americans and what you like to call "anchor babies." Are you OK with all the "anchor babies" who are fighting for you in Iraq and Afghanistan? "/quote

woah there is so much wrong with just that 1 paragraph. First of all how the he** have they contributed to our country? WE HAVE NO JOBS!!!!! The more of them that come here and STEAL our jobs leaves those that are rightfully here with no jobs. SO THAT THEY CAN LAY AROUND AND BE LAZY?!?! and STEAL our identity so that we not only have to pay for them to live off of aid and but also to ruine our credit and swindle our country out of money. Its called stealing. Open your eyes. This problem got worse since more have come here. since our government went corrupt and invited them in. Fine embrace them Give them YOUR job and YOUR home and share YOUR identity with them but keep them away from the rest of us that are entitled to have jobs our own identity and homes.

As for the anchor babies in Iraq heck yes Im okay with it. they wouldnt be over there fighting for this country if they didnt want to be in this country if they werent proud to be a US citizen.
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Old 02-18-2010, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Indiana
183 posts, read 205,769 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
In reality changing birthright citizenship won't strip those already deemed as citizens of their citizenship status. Any births from illegal alien parents from that point forward will however not be granted citizenship. The bill that is being pushed is for at least one parent to be a citizen of this country in order for a newborn to gain birthright citizenship. As for those in country illegally or after citizenship status is changed, their children born on our soil should not be used as leverage for their parents to remain here. They can take them back to the homeland with them where they will enjoy dual citizenship.
well unfortunatly that doesnt help any either as I can not tell you how many "friends" I have that have already got with an illegal ailen and had children with them or as I call it bred with them.
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Old 02-18-2010, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,252,886 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
In reality changing birthright citizenship won't strip those already deemed as citizens of their citizenship status. Any births from illegal alien parents from that point forward will however not be granted citizenship. The bill that is being pushed is for at least one parent to be a citizen of this country in order for a newborn to gain birthright citizenship. As for those in country illegally or after citizenship status is changed, their children born on our soil should not be used as leverage for their parents to remain here. They can take them back to the homeland with them where they will enjoy dual citizenship.
There should also be a condition that No Child can (officially)become a US Citizen until after both Parents have applied for Citizenship.

That alone would eliminate most birthright citizenship because most Illegals have no intention of applying.
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Old 02-18-2010, 06:00 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,182,536 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommylee963 View Post
well unfortunatly that doesnt help any either as I can not tell you how many "friends" I have that have already got with an illegal ailen and had children with them or as I call it bred with them.
Well unfortunately that is all we are going to get out of this bill. Ideally, we would require that both parents be citizens in order for their newborn to gain birthright citizenship but that just isn't going to happen. So we will have to settle for one parent being the qualifier. I do know that citizens do marry illegals but I doubt that they are among the majority. Of course this would open up a whole new avenue for fraud for the future. I'd rather we had an airtight birthright citizenship clause.
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Old 02-18-2010, 06:04 PM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 4,098,193 times
Reputation: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by tulani View Post
WOW! What a LONG read, but well worth it.

I picked out this gem:

Yale professor Peter H. Schuck, who teaches immigration law and is one of the nation’s preeminent scholars on the issue of birthright citizenship, lays out the question that the president, Congress and the courts have dodged decisively answering: “If mutual consent is the irreducible condition of membership in the American polity, questions arise about a practice that extends birthright citizenship to the native born children of such illegal aliens,” Schuck writes in Citizenship Without Consent: Illegal Aliens in the American Polity. “The parents of such children are, by definition, individuals whose presence within the jurisdiction of the United States is prohibited by law and to whom the society has explicitly and self-consciously decided to deny membership. And if the society has refused to consent to their membership, it can hardly be said to have consented to that of their children who happen to be born while their parents are here in violation of American law.”

Why is this so hard for some people to understand?
Maybe because Mr. Schuck is giving his assement of the 14th amendment and doesn't provide any example of proof from the very document he wishes to explain.

No where in the 14th amendment does it speak of the "Parents" jurisdiction or allegiance. Niether Professor Schuck nor Dr. Eastman can show any example of their "explanations" of Parental Juisdiction vis a vis The 14th Amendment or the American Jurisprudence.
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