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Unread 03-01-2010, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Arvada, CO
8,071 posts, read 10,055,240 times
Reputation: 5559
Quote:
Originally Posted by getout View Post
I'll have to side with chicagonut on this one, you must consider the area where one lives.

I, a native from a different state and can say, most McDonald's (2) in our small town employ local teens, seniors. As a visitor to Texas, I can't understand from the thick dialect through the speakers. Venturing inside, my order has been wrong, EVERY time. Even upon pointing it out, the "corrections" are wrong, then THEY cop an attitude. I no longer go to McDonald's in Texas. Went to an all you can eat joint. Asked the lady on the floor, what type of fish. She looked at me as though "I" was an alien and ran into the back room. I don't eat there anymore either. If they cannot understand simple English, how can I expect that establishment to understand health codes. Legal? Illegal? Who knows or cares. This is AMERICA, we speak ENGLISH. Assimilate.

Enough about that. Do you know how many are really unemployed? Searching? My husband gets calls EVERY day from seekers, friends all willing to relocate (as we have had to do) who HATE being on unemployment. (You think it is a lot of money? Try and sustain a household) Don't you think those on unemployment know that it will end? It is sad, really sad to see our fellow Americans, especially the construction industry taking this huge brunt of economical distress. Families who choose between their credit and food. House before insurance (which has been paid into for years to now have to be cancelled due to unaffordability) Don't anyone give me the crap about universal health care, politicians blah blah. Illegal alien hiring has devastated this country and crippled lives; some beyond repair. Grow up and wake up. Accuse me of being emotional, you bet I am. The pis*ed kind.
I am considering an area where one lives. I live in Denver, not exactly a place free of illegal immigrants or Hispanics. I'm originally from Southern California, and I know what demo of people work in fast food there as well. Not to mention, I didn't use fast food as my only example. If the social/economic/linguistic status of an area is THAT BAD, for goodness sakes': MOVE!

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to blame the economic crisis on illegal immigrants. Some are self-deporting themselves.

Late-2000s recession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I never said unemployment was a lot of money, but I have been without a job before, and have been underemployed, and it sucks. But you can't scapegoat your problems, you can only do what you can to fix them (as I'm sure you are).

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoEdible View Post
None of that is anyone else's fault though. US residents and citizens shouldn't have to take the negative effects of trying to save the day by turning the other cheek to illegal immigration.
That's true.
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Unread 03-01-2010, 07:27 PM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,207 posts, read 1,172,339 times
Reputation: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
I am considering an area where one lives. I live in Denver, not exactly a place free of illegal immigrants or Hispanics. I'm originally from Southern California, and I know what demo of people work in fast food there as well. Not to mention, I didn't use fast food as my only example. If the social/economic/linguistic status of an area is THAT BAD, for goodness sakes': MOVE!

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to blame the economic crisis on illegal immigrants. Some are self-deporting themselves.

Late-2000s recession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I never said unemployment was a lot of money, but I have been without a job before, and have been underemployed, and it sucks. But you can't scapegoat your problems, you can only do what you can to fix them (as I'm sure you are).



That's true.
Thank you, David. Finding a poll (posted in here) which shows 8.5 mil out of work, 8.3 illegal alien population (I also believe both to be much higher, more than double) makes one formulate an opinion. During economic cirsis, we all look for ways to tighten the belt, for us and the nation, as Americans. Finding that the correlation between illegal immigration and our current crisis is not that hard to figure out, this is why so many Americans are so angry. What fuels the fire are those who are still demanding more, especially while many believe them to be the cause. Any reasonable person can see how the dominoes fell leading to today. Sure, business, greed, they all claim innocence and are all arguments, but invalid to me. As we scream, stop coming, we need to reassess, they continue and scream back, too bad. Not good. It needs to stop. Let us reassess our damage, then, legally they can pursue the American dream. Stop stealing from us when we have no more to give. Yet they jump through the loopholes disrespecting everything America is to represent forcing us to become what we strive not to be. Then, we snap.
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Unread 03-01-2010, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Arvada, CO
8,071 posts, read 10,055,240 times
Reputation: 5559
Quote:
Originally Posted by getout View Post
Thank you, David. Finding a poll (posted in here) which shows 8.5 mil out of work, 8.3 illegal alien population (I also believe both to be much higher, more than double) makes one formulate an opinion. During economic cirsis, we all look for ways to tighten the belt, for us and the nation, as Americans. Finding that the correlation between illegal immigration and our current crisis is not that hard to figure out, this is why so many Americans are so angry. What fuels the fire are those who are still demanding more, especially while many believe them to be the cause. Any reasonable person can see how the dominoes fell leading to today. Sure, business, greed, they all claim innocence and are all arguments, but invalid to me. As we scream, stop coming, we need to reassess, they continue and scream back, too bad. Not good. It needs to stop. Let us reassess our damage, then, legally they can pursue the American dream. Stop stealing from us when we have no more to give. Yet they jump through the loopholes disrespecting everything America is to represent forcing us to become what we strive not to be. Then, we snap.
That's all fine and good, but 8.5: 8.3 would mean that all of those illegal immigrants are workers. Are we not counting housewives and children in this equation?

Look, I'm not saying it's not an issue, but they were here when virtually all of us had jobs. They can't be the cause.
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Unread 03-01-2010, 07:58 PM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,207 posts, read 1,172,339 times
Reputation: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
That's all fine and good, but 8.5: 8.3 would mean that all of those illegal immigrants are workers. Are we not counting housewives and children in this equation?

Look, I'm not saying it's not an issue, but they were here when virtually all of us had jobs. They can't be the cause.
I forget the exacts of the poll, I knew I should have reviewed it before posting. I am smart enough to decipher the difference so I will go with it had to be workers. If I find different, I do promise to rectify my findings.

Regarding your "they were here", yes...but not in the massive influx which we have today. Secondly, sh*t rolls downhill, meaning an eventual outcome exposed. That is my point. The massive influx, massive abuse resulting in massive costs.
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Unread 03-01-2010, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Arvada, CO
8,071 posts, read 10,055,240 times
Reputation: 5559
Quote:
Originally Posted by getout View Post
Regarding your "they were here", yes...but not in the massive influx which we have today. Secondly, sh*t rolls downhill, meaning an eventual outcome exposed. That is my point. The massive influx, massive abuse resulting in massive costs.
So you think they're still coming here in droves when there is little work to be had?
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Unread 03-01-2010, 09:30 PM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,207 posts, read 1,172,339 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
So you think they're still coming here in droves when there is little work to be had?
Yes, they are still coming cashing in on the birthright clause of our Constitution, the border crossing numbers show they are still coming. Those that come acclimate into our Social Service programs quickly.

I also believe some have migrated or left, numbers have shown due to the economy, yet many remain as visa over stayers in hopes of the carrot dangling false amnesty promise.
Many still working under the table, still hoping. I see this as an average scenario: Birthright abuse of our Constitution, Social Service abuse, fraudulent documentation for work and/or both.

Mostly both.
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Unread 03-02-2010, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,180 posts, read 9,014,544 times
Reputation: 2965
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
That's all fine and good, but 8.5: 8.3 would mean that all of those illegal immigrants are workers. Are we not counting housewives and children in this equation?

Look, I'm not saying it's not an issue, but they were here when virtually all of us had jobs. They can't be the cause.
It has been an insidious and methodical process. Initially, all was well. Illegal immigration existed, but not at the current massive level. Essentially, everyone who wanted a job had one, and unemployment was relatively low. Then, as the years passed, more and more illegals came, and businesses discovered they had a glut of exploitable workers they could employ for greater profits. After all, fixed labor costs tend to be the largest expense for most businesses. Through illegal immigration, employers could not only pay workers less, but they could also reduce their overhead by eliminating the expense of workers’ comp and unemployment insurance. Additionally, they could reduce or eliminate their tax liability by paying them under the table. Result: more employers desired to hire illegal workers.

Unscrupulous construction contractors also realized they could lower their bids, thus beating their legitimate competitors by employing the abundant cheap labor. Result: legitimate contractors could no longer compete, and their legal employees became unemployed. The unemployed construction workers could not find jobs, because the contractors preferred cheap illegal labor.

Word spreads, and now the hospitality, meat-packing, restaurant, retail, and landscaping industries join the cheap labor bandwagon. Why not, since the laws aren’t being enforced, and if caught employing illegals, the penalty will be a mere slap on the wrist. Result: citizens, in particular teens, college students, and the elderly have a difficult time finding jobs, because employers have a preference for cheap labor.

To compound the problem, the manufacturing industry begins to outsource to foreign lands; in particular, China, where again, cheap labor is plentiful. Result: U.S. manufacturing employees are now unemployed, with few employment options available.

The IT industry decides to increase their profits by either outsourcing to India, or hiring foreigners, again at lower wages, through the H-1B visa program. Result: IT professionals are unemployed.

Let’s not forget the “day laborers” frequently seen loitering in Home Depot parking lots, or at tax-funded sites built to accommodate them in certain areas of the country. Sadly, U.S. citizens employ these illegals to the detriment of their own.

Fast forward -- now the country is in the midst of a recession. Businesses are closing, foreclosures are skyrocketing, and unemployment reaches double digits. So yes, illegal immigration existed during the good times. However, their increasing numbers and their willingness to accept lower wages and no benefits, was instrumental in the displacement of legal workers, the depression of wages, and is a major factor for our current level of unemployment.

Is illegal immigration solely responsible for our high rate of unemployment? No. However, collectively, the cheap labor industry, which is comprised of illegal immigration, outsourcing, and in-sourcing, are all major factors, and are leading to the demise of the middle class. Yet, somehow, opposition to illegal immigration is considered motivated by racism.

Quote:
To stimulate relief efforts, President Bush suspended portions of the Davis-Bacon Act, which requires that construction workers on federal projects be paid the prevailing local wage. Then the Department of Homeland Security said it would not penalize employers who hired illegal workers. While the idea behind these actions is to lower costs, cut red tape and accelerate rebuilding, the reality is that contractors will have free rein to hire undocumented workers.
USATODAY.com - Katrina's next expos: Immigration woes

Quote:
An Alabama employment agency that sent 70 laborers and construction workers to job sites in that state in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina says the men were sent home after just two weeks on the job by employers who told them "the Mexicans had arrived" and were willing to work for less. Linda Swope, who operates Complete Employment Services Inc. in Mobile, Ala., told The Washington Times last week that the workers -- whom she described as U.S. citizens, residents of Alabama and predominantly black -- had been "urgently requested" by contractors hired to rebuild and clear devastated areas of the state, but were told to leave three job sites when the foreign workers showed up.
Arrival of aliens ousts U.S. workers - Washington Times

Quote:
Capitalizing on a cultural exchange program run by the US State Department and the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) , USA-IT in its marketing literature told prospective clients that it was "an exchange company that provides qualified overseas electricians to US companies," adding that "because of the type of visa that is granted and because they are not familiar with US customs, we call the electricians trainees."

USA-IT would help companies hire the the foreign "trainees" by getting organizations such as the YMCA of Greater New York to sponsor their 18-month J-1 visas. The YMCA of Greater New York — which runs an international camp counselor program —has been approved by the State Department to sponsor cultural exchange visas.

USA-IT also plugged another advantage: that cultural exchange trainees cannot change employers. What that meant was that exchange trainees could be threatened with deportation if they objected to pay, benefits or working conditions.
http://www.workinglife.org/wiki/U.S.+Businesses+Exploiting+Cheap+Labor+Imported+Un der+State+Department+Cultural+Exchange+Visa+Progra m+(Oct.+24,+2001 (broken link))

Quote:
This underground economy is thriving. A snapshot of one business day last year found 117,600 day laborers working or looking for jobs at 500 sites, according to a January 2006 study funded by the Ford Foundation and other think tanks. Three-quarters of them were undocumented workers.

Almost half of those workers were hired for household chores. The top jobs were construction, gardening, painting and drywall installation, according to the study, "On the Corner: Day Labor in the United States."
Dirt-cheap day labor - MSN Money

Quote:
"Starting next week several Hartford delivery teams will be working directly with fellow IBM team members from India to begin the second phase of our Global delivery solution planned for the Hartford account. The teams will be engaged in a multi-week effort to facilitate knowledge transfer to prepare for migration of specific work activities to global delivery counterparts later in 2009. Your continued support and leadership is critical to ensure our overall success and to ensure we continue to deliver high quality cost effective solutions that IBM committed to the Hartford.

Reportedly some U.S. based IBMers are busy training their replacements that come mostly from India on H-1B or L-1 visas. Some Argentineans are also getting knowledge transferred to them also.
I(ndia)BM's Global Mentoring Program and black Thursday

Quote:
Bank of America has been steadily moving thousands of tech jobs to India. The latest to go are about 100 positions that handle BofA's internal tech support.

While many of the bank's Bay Area techies accept the inevitability of their jobs heading abroad, what rankles them is the fact that, in many cases, they're being told they have to first train the Indians who are getting their gigs.

"If people want their severance packages, they have to train their replacements," a senior engineer at one of BofA's Bay Area facilities told me. "There's nothing in writing that says this -- the bank's been careful about that. But it's made clear at meetings what we're supposed to do."
BofA: Train your replacement, or no severance pay for you (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/06/09/BUGPJJA66348.DTL - broken link)
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Unread 03-02-2010, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Arvada, CO
8,071 posts, read 10,055,240 times
Reputation: 5559
Well thought-out theories Benicar.

IMO, businesses that take/took advantage of cheap labor, illegals, in/outsourcing, etc, are just as much to blame (if not more to blame) for our current situation.
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Unread 03-02-2010, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,180 posts, read 9,014,544 times
Reputation: 2965
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
Well thought-out theories Benicar.

IMO, businesses that take/took advantage of cheap labor, illegals, in/outsourcing, etc, are just as much to blame (if not more to blame) for our current situation.
Absolutely!
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Unread 03-02-2010, 10:39 AM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,207 posts, read 1,172,339 times
Reputation: 444
Benicar does say it best, taking the time to break it down with backup, I for one do not have that patience! Thank you Benciar and David, absolutely, businesses are most to blame. The problem is we can point fingers all day long, we need to find a solution to end this now and get this economy back on strong solid footing.
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