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Old 02-24-2010, 04:14 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 3,578,685 times
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My username in here doesn't denote a certain ethnicity without being such. I don't pretend to be something I may or may not be.

Nor does anyone else. My friend's last name was Mendoza...guess what? Both her parent's came from the Philippines. A country where little Spanish is spoken, but the President's last name is Arroyo and the VP's last name is Castro. So your point about DA's last name is simply another swipe at Hispanics.

Where did I say that I can tell by looking at someone whether they are here legally or not? I don't get your Jack In The Box analogy then.

Because you completely jumped to conclusions with surnames, it is quite possible...actually more than likely you would do the same with the way people look. It's funny you claim you can't tell a person's legality via looking from them...but you can tell a person's ethnic background from their surname...My mom's last name is English, is she English?

I never suggested that we put illegals on buses en masse and deport them. I prefer self-deportations from lack of incentives to stay here. Why in the world would you think that either our allies or enemies would think badly of us to enforce our immigration laws when they enforce their own? Some kind of logic is lacking in that one.

You have suggested mass deportation. There is def. logic lacking, but I get the feeling you don't truly understand where it's lacking.

Terrorists will choose whatever avenues are open to them to enter our country. We have a big gaping hole on our southern border and it has been easily penetrated by the fact that we have already had millions of illegals enter that way. Now you try and tell me that our enemies haven't licked their lips on the possibilities open for them down there. The FBI Director Robert Mueller has already stated that numbers of persons from known terrorist countries have already entered that way and disappeared into our country. Just because the last attack was with airplanes doesn't mean there will never be another way attempted. In fact, it would make more sense for them to try something different next time around. Besides, who is to say they wouldn't enter our country from the south this time and still try the airplane attack or some other method of terrorism? We need to keep them from entering in the first place so they can't perform an act of terrorism after they are inside of our country.

Most terrorists, in fact all the ones who have either attacked or had plans thrawted, came via our international airports. The reason is quite simple...it's easier. It's less time and money to navigate our airports. Going up to the border and trying to reach your destination via busses and trains, while possible, is highly inefficient. There may be other means of enterance. However, having a 2,000 mile border means that there ALWAYS will be gaps. ALWAYS. Either we can live in fear and waste tons of money, or we can focus on trying to improve our nation. So even if they were to come in via the southern border...prevention would require an obscene amount of resources diverted from other things. We should secure our borders better, but not to the logical end (complete militarization of the border) that many have proposed.
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Old 02-25-2010, 02:10 AM
 
Location: Arvada, CO
9,307 posts, read 12,475,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
My username in here doesn't denote a certain ethnicity without being such. I don't pretend to be something I may or may not be.
And neither do I.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Where did I say that I can tell by looking at someone whether they are here legally or not? I don't get your Jack In The Box analogy then.
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I never suggested that we put illegals on buses en masse and deport them. I prefer self-deportations from lack of incentives to stay here. Why in the world would you think that either our allies or enemies would think badly of us to enforce our immigration laws when they enforce their own? Some kind of logic is lacking in that one.
Because we are America. We aren't supposed to do things like that.

The bold is fine, but denying children education, food, and health care isn't the answer. Denying adults everything except real emergency health care is fine with me too.

Mass deportation has been suggested here before (I didn't say by you).

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Terrorists will choose whatever avenues are open to them to enter our country. We have a big gaping hole on our southern border and it has been easily penetrated by the fact that we have already had millions of illegals enter that way. Now you try and tell me that our enemies haven't licked their lips on the possibilities open for them down there. The FBI Director Robert Mueller has already stated that numbers of persons from known terrorist countries have already entered that way and disappeared into our country. Just because the last attack was with airplanes doesn't mean there will never be another way attempted. In fact, it would make more sense for them to try something different next time around. Besides, who is to say they wouldn't enter our country from the south this time and still try the airplane attack or some other method of terrorism? We need to keep them from entering in the first place so they can't perform an act of terrorism after they are inside of our country.
I wasn't just referring to 9/11. Richard Reid. The Nigerian guy in Detroit. Najibullah Zazi (he is a legal immigrant BTW). These guys aren't coming in the back door, but I see your point.

Regardless of their avenue of entry, whether it be by air, sea, or northern or southern border, if they want to get here bad enough, they will find a way, closing the border with Mexico won't stop terrorists from getting here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Would you care to expound on the “broken system we have that allows them to be here with little recourse?”
Well, isn't that what we're talking about? Unless an illegal is caught by INS, what other consequences is he going to face? Cops can't deport them in many places. There's a Guatemalan guy here in CO (Francis Hernandez, who was dragged here by his parents at the age of 4), who is on trial for some deaths he caused in a car accident (I'll call it a car "purpose" because he was driving very recklessly). He was cited 19 times for traffic offenses over the years. Was he ever deferred to INS? No. Should he have been? That's for you to decide, but I can't fault somebody for remaining in this country if they were brought here when they were 4. If we deport him back to Guatemala after his prison sentence, he'll be back here within a month under a different name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
What differentiates the poor in Mexico from the blacks in this country who were in fact willing to fight and die for equality? Why is the notion of an uprising in Mexico so farfetched? Seriously, I am trying to understand why it is impossible for the citizens of Mexico to demand change, rather than fleeing to the U.S. in hopes of achieving the “American Dream.”
Hmmm, 1) stay here in Mexico and fight for "my rights", or 2) move a few thousand miles north, don't fight, and increase my income by 7x.

Easy choice.

Mexico doesn't have the rights guaranteed in our Constitution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Perhaps you will also explain the connection between European immigrants legally relocating to the US, and the illegal presence of 10% of Mexico.
A regular, skill-less "Jose Schmo" from Mexico has at least a 7-8 year wait (probably longer, we have a met quota pertaining to Mexicans) just to get a green card (the first step towards citizenship).

Do you see why they don't wait?

It's likely many European immigrants are educated (the educated are moved along more expeditiously).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I don’t believe anyone is so ignorant to believe Mexico is on par with the US. However, you portray Mexico as being incapable of progressing beyond its current state. There are poor in every country. However, compared to places such as Haiti, Mexico is paradise. Should Mexico’s proximity to the U.S. afford its underclass the right to seek a better life by violating our laws? Or, should we revise our laws to accommodate them?
Mexico is run by a "good old boys" system. It's hard for anything to progress out of that.

To answer your two questions, both answers are no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
What’s wrong with self-preservation and mainstream American culture? Why shouldn’t a country strive to preserve what its citizens have fought and died to realize? If not for the sacrifices of brave American men and women, we would not be the destination of choice, and there would be no illegal immigration, because no one would choose to come here. I certainly have no desire to revert to “how things were.” However, I do desire to retain our middle-class population and our first-world status.
As do I, but even if all of poor Mexico moved here tomorrow, we'd still be first-world, and we'd still have a middle class. The shrinking of the middle class isn't due to illegal immigration, it's due to middle class jobs disappearing. If the average illegal immigrant's job is what you consider to be "middle class".....

I sense a fear from some, like they fear that we all will have to learn Spanish and be forced to dance to rancheras someday. They fear that their children will come home with Latino friends or husbands. They fear that their 1950's era white-suburban ideals will disappear into obscurity, never to return. I don't think it's anything to worry about, we all can choose to have any culture we please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Contrary to your belief, as citizens of this country, we do have a dog in this fight. After all, this is OUR country, and if it fails, we ALL fail. Therefore, I am willing to fight. Otherwise, the sacrifices of my ancestors, and those of my fellow Americans, will have been in vain.
Agreed. But illegal immigration will not be the downfall of this country. War, politics, or economics will be, should a downfall ever occur.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
It matters not whether the opinions conveyed on this forum are deemed relevant by you or anyone else. I am here to exchange information and discuss topics pertaining to illegal immigration. And yes, on occasion vent. This is a small sub-forum on one of many discussion boards on the internet. That’s all it is.
Yep, for an outsider looking in (which I am most of the time), it's like a bonfire with a mostly anti-Hispanic sentiment. A room in the back of the building for the nuts (no offense meant). I get it.

There are bigger, more complex issues in this country today IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Ending illegal immigration is only one step in a long process to return some semblance of the rule of law to this country. Yes, illegal aliens were here when the economy was good. And yes, they did fall under the radar for many years. But that was “then.” We must deal with “now.” And now, we have unprecedented illegal immigration, and unprecedented abuse of U.S. taxpayers. We are also in the midst of an economic recession. If we don’t have enough jobs for our own citizens, how on earth can we justify allowing millions of foreigners, legal or illegal, to continue to work in this country?
Ask the people that are employing them.

I have no problem with law enforcement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
No, illegal immigration is not responsible for all of our woes, but it is certainly a factor. How could it not be, when we are spending billions annually to feed, educate, house, medically treat, prosecute, and incarcerate foreigners who have no right to be here?
How would you solve the problem?

How about:
1) re-write the tax code to ensure they are paying their fair share of taxes
2) make the immigration process smoother (as in not nearly impossible)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
If our laws are enforced, illegal aliens will not be employed. If they can’t work, and can’t receive government assistance, how will they continue to live in this country?
E-verify away.

I touched on this earlier, but I don't think punishing the children (who are innocent in this matter) is the answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
In closing, your final sentence (bolded) reeks of arrogance. Or, am I jumping to conclusions? I have to leave, but I will return, if you choose to grace us with your presence.
Gee, thanks.

The great thing about America, is that I am allowed to be arrogant if I want to be.

In conclusion: I'm not pro-illegal immgration (it's hard to say that there could even be such a thing), but I don't see a whole lot that would change if illegal immigration was stopped, reversed, or undone. There'd still be poor Latinos here, there'd still be people that don't speak English, there'd still be signs in Spanish, there'd still be crowded emergency rooms, free lunches, ESL classes, food stamps, section 8, jail, and prison.

And there wouldn't be a whole lot less of any of those things.

So why fight it?
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Old 02-25-2010, 06:54 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,157 posts, read 26,703,493 times
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DA: I am not going to reply to your post point by point; that stated, it is high time for all illegal aliens and the Anchor Babies to leave the USA-------------if nothing else, for their own safety.

What do you think is going to happen once there are no more unemployment benefits extensions? Suffice to say: we are going to be seeing scads of Americans battling illegal aliens standing on the street corners for work. And if one of the latter was assaulted by an American; or worse, an illegal injured one of us----------somehow I doubt that LE will take the side of said illegal alien.
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Old 02-25-2010, 08:47 AM
 
Location: San Diego
17,505 posts, read 14,170,353 times
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Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
And neither do I.



Exactly.



Because we are America. We aren't supposed to do things like that.

The bold is fine, but denying children education, food, and health care isn't the answer. Denying adults everything except real emergency health care is fine with me too.

Mass deportation has been suggested here before (I didn't say by you).



I wasn't just referring to 9/11. Richard Reid. The Nigerian guy in Detroit. Najibullah Zazi (he is a legal immigrant BTW). These guys aren't coming in the back door, but I see your point.

Regardless of their avenue of entry, whether it be by air, sea, or northern or southern border, if they want to get here bad enough, they will find a way, closing the border with Mexico won't stop terrorists from getting here.



Well, isn't that what we're talking about? Unless an illegal is caught by INS, what other consequences is he going to face? Cops can't deport them in many places. There's a Guatemalan guy here in CO (Francis Hernandez, who was dragged here by his parents at the age of 4), who is on trial for some deaths he caused in a car accident (I'll call it a car "purpose" because he was driving very recklessly). He was cited 19 times for traffic offenses over the years. Was he ever deferred to INS? No. Should he have been? That's for you to decide, but I can't fault somebody for remaining in this country if they were brought here when they were 4. If we deport him back to Guatemala after his prison sentence, he'll be back here within a month under a different name.



Hmmm, 1) stay here in Mexico and fight for "my rights", or 2) move a few thousand miles north, don't fight, and increase my income by 7x.

Easy choice.

Mexico doesn't have the rights guaranteed in our Constitution.



A regular, skill-less "Jose Schmo" from Mexico has at least a 7-8 year wait (probably longer, we have a met quota pertaining to Mexicans) just to get a green card (the first step towards citizenship).

Do you see why they don't wait?

It's likely many European immigrants are educated (the educated are moved along more expeditiously).



Mexico is run by a "good old boys" system. It's hard for anything to progress out of that.

To answer your two questions, both answers are no.



As do I, but even if all of poor Mexico moved here tomorrow, we'd still be first-world, and we'd still have a middle class. The shrinking of the middle class isn't due to illegal immigration, it's due to middle class jobs disappearing. If the average illegal immigrant's job is what you consider to be "middle class".....

I sense a fear from some, like they fear that we all will have to learn Spanish and be forced to dance to rancheras someday. They fear that their children will come home with Latino friends or husbands. They fear that their 1950's era white-suburban ideals will disappear into obscurity, never to return. I don't think it's anything to worry about, we all can choose to have any culture we please.



Agreed. But illegal immigration will not be the downfall of this country. War, politics, or economics will be, should a downfall ever occur.



Yep, for an outsider looking in (which I am most of the time), it's like a bonfire with a mostly anti-Hispanic sentiment. A room in the back of the building for the nuts (no offense meant). I get it.

There are bigger, more complex issues in this country today IMO.



Ask the people that are employing them.

I have no problem with law enforcement.



How would you solve the problem?

How about:
1) re-write the tax code to ensure they are paying their fair share of taxes
2) make the immigration process smoother (as in not nearly impossible)



E-verify away.

I touched on this earlier, but I don't think punishing the children (who are innocent in this matter) is the answer.



Gee, thanks.

The great thing about America, is that I am allowed to be arrogant if I want to be.

In conclusion: I'm not pro-illegal immgration (it's hard to say that there could even be such a thing), but I don't see a whole lot that would change if illegal immigration was stopped, reversed, or undone. There'd still be poor Latinos here, there'd still be people that don't speak English, there'd still be signs in Spanish, there'd still be crowded emergency rooms, free lunches, ESL classes, food stamps, section 8, jail, and prison.

And there wouldn't be a whole lot less of any of those things.

So why fight it?
Mexico has social services AND schools. We aren't denying these Mexican Nationals these benefits we are preventing them from stealing social services meant for American Citizens.
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Old 02-25-2010, 08:56 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 3,578,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Mexico has social services AND schools. We aren't denying these Mexican Nationals these benefits we are preventing them from stealing social services meant for American Citizens.
Do you think that in the long run preventing people from obtaining an education is good for the US?
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Old 02-25-2010, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,157 posts, read 26,703,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Do you think that in the long run preventing people from obtaining an education is good for the US?
Sure it is. Maybe this will be the test for find out what Mexico is made of. If that nation's education system turns out capable people; not only would it help that nation, it would help the USA by default
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Old 02-25-2010, 09:24 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 3,578,685 times
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Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Sure it is. Maybe this will be the test for find out what Mexico is made of. If that nation's education system turns out capable people; not only would it help that nation, it would help the USA by default
So preventing people in the US from getting an education is a good idea in the long run, according to you?
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Old 02-25-2010, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Arvada, CO
9,307 posts, read 12,475,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
DA: I am not going to reply to your post point by point; that stated, it is high time for all illegal aliens and the Anchor Babies to leave the USA-------------if nothing else, for their own safety.

What do you think is going to happen once there are no more unemployment benefits extensions? Suffice to say: we are going to be seeing scads of Americans battling illegal aliens standing on the street corners for work. And if one of the latter was assaulted by an American; or worse, an illegal injured one of us----------somehow I doubt that LE will take the side of said illegal alien.
LOL, I love your little soapbox declarations.

Re: your second paragraph, If an American is unemployed now, why isn't he on the street corner now? I haven't seen any Americans on street corners around here. Your "safety" defense is dubious, many of these people live in ghettos for goodness' sakes, not to mention, many Americans probably wouldn't want to put themselves at risk by standing on the street corner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Mexico has social services AND schools. We aren't denying these Mexican Nationals these benefits we are preventing them from stealing social services meant for American Citizens.
So you admit they aren't coming here for social services.

But the "but, but, but, it's not theirs!" argument is getting old, c'mon TaxPayer, you can do better than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Do you think that in the long run preventing people from obtaining an education is good for the US?
Well, if we keep them poor and uneducated, they (the others) can still have somebody to look down on.
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Old 02-25-2010, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,181 posts, read 10,334,658 times
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Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
Well, isn't that what we're talking about? Unless an illegal is caught by INS, what other consequences is he going to face? Cops can't deport them in many places. There's a Guatemalan guy here in CO (Francis Hernandez, who was dragged here by his parents at the age of 4), who is on trial for some deaths he caused in a car accident (I'll call it a car "purpose" because he was driving very recklessly). He was cited 19 times for traffic offenses over the years. Was he ever deferred to INS? No. Should he have been? That's for you to decide, but I can't fault somebody for remaining in this country if they were brought here when they were 4. If we deport him back to Guatemala after his prison sentence, he'll be back here within a month under a different name.
Thanks for the clarification. When you mentioned they had no recourse, I wasn’t sure if you meant they “had” to come here illegally due to our “broken system” or what. Part of the problem is the coddling they receive. The guy you referenced should have been deported ages ago. They continue to receive a slap on the wrist, until they eventually maim or kill. Then, the punishment is still much too lenient.

His parents brought him here at age 4, and they alone are responsible for his illegal status.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
Hmmm, 1) stay here in Mexico and fight for "my rights", or 2) move a few thousand miles north, don't fight, and increase my income by 7x.

Easy choice.

Mexico doesn't have the rights guaranteed in our Constitution.
In other words, they should run from their problems like cowards. How does that improve the lives of their countrymen who remain in Mexico? How will Mexico ever progress if no one has enough courage to challenge the status quo? We wouldn’t have this great nation if our citizens weren’t willing to make the ultimate sacrifice. If illegal are nebbish, they don’t deserve the rights and privileges we have in this country. If they won’t fight for Mexico, the land they love, they certainly won’t fight for the US.

Blacks didn’t have certain rights either, until they fought for those rights. I shudder to think of how life would be if not for their courage and resolve. Apparently, those characteristics are lacking in Mexico.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
A regular, skill-less "Jose Schmo" from Mexico has at least a 7-8 year wait (probably longer, we have a met quota pertaining to Mexicans) just to get a green card (the first step towards citizenship).

Do you see why they don't wait?
Should our immigration laws be designed to benefit us, or the impoverished who wish to come here? We have a selection process, and all cannot expect to be included. Perhaps if they remained in their country and postponed parenthood until they are responsible adults, and received more than a 5th grade education, they would substantially improve their chances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
It's likely many European immigrants are educated (the educated are moved along more expeditiously).
You implied a similarity exists between European immigrants and Mexican illegal aliens, as though Mexicans entering this country illegally are essentially the same as the immigrants who came here through legal channels. That was the premise of my question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
Mexico is run by a "good old boys" system. It's hard for anything to progress out of that.
And our country isn’t?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
As do I, but even if all of poor Mexico moved here tomorrow, we'd still be first-world, and we'd still have a middle class. The shrinking of the middle class isn't due to illegal immigration, it's due to middle class jobs disappearing. If the average illegal immigrant's job is what you consider to be "middle class".....

I sense a fear from some, like they fear that we all will have to learn Spanish and be forced to dance to rancheras someday. They fear that their children will come home with Latino friends or husbands. They fear that their 1950's era white-suburban ideals will disappear into obscurity, never to return. I don't think it's anything to worry about, we all can choose to have any culture we please.
C’mon, you can’t believe that. If so, why isn’t Mexico a first-world country?

Yes, our middle class is shrinking due to job loss, and IMO, the problem is threefold: illegal immigration, outsourcing (China, India), and in-sourcing (H1-B, etc). Case in point, the construction industry. Prior to massive illegal immigration, construction work afforded one a middle class lifestyle. Now, illegal aliens dominate construction, and the greedy contractors are paying wages citizens received 10-15 years ago. Legitimate contractors simply can’t compete. Talk to a few “former” construction workers.

I believe the “fear” is justified. Countless employees have been replaced due to their inability to speak Spanish in an English-speaking country. If you decided to permanently relocate to a foreign country, would you expect the host country to accommodate you, or would you expect to learn their language?

I don’t believe ethnicity is an issue for most opponents of illegal immigration. Moreover, many “Hispanics” are in fact white. As a matter of fact, the majority of Hispanics responding to the last census self-identified as white. Furthermore, the 1950’s-era ended years ago. Today, one can live wherever one chooses, and interracial marriages are no longer taboo. Illegal aliens and their peddlers have manufactured an ethnic/racial component as a strategy to garner support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
Agreed. But illegal immigration will not be the downfall of this country. War, politics, or economics will be, should a downfall ever occur.
If we continue along our current path, we WILL fall. And, illegal immigration will be a salient factor in our demise. Now that illegal immigration has surpassed legal immigration, it has become unsustainable. While most illegals are not violent criminals, many are, and they are wreaking havoc and overwhelming our penal systems. Additionally, the presence of millions of illegal aliens has increased our welfare rolls, created school budgetary deficits, and contributed to the closure of hospitals. How can this be considered beneficial to our country?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
Yep, for an outsider looking in (which I am most of the time), it's like a bonfire with a mostly anti-Hispanic sentiment. A room in the back of the building for the nuts (no offense meant). I get it.

There are bigger, more complex issues in this country today IMO.
It is not anti-Hispanic sentiment. Who would you expect to receive the lion’s share of discussion in the Illegal Immigration Forum, if not the group comprising the vast majority of illegal immigrants? If we had massive illegal immigration from Ethiopia, they would be our primary focus. Not that they don’t exist, and we have certainly been visited by some on this forum, but I personally don’t know any anti-illegals who are anti-Hispanic. However, I do know some who are becoming anti-Hispanic due to massive Hispanic illegal immigration; which is unfortunate. All of the Hispanics I know oppose illegal immigration, particularly, the immigrants who played by the rules. Not to mention, the precarious conditions Hispanic illegal aliens have created for ALL non-white Hispanics.

We are all individuals with diverse interests. We also choose our battles; and I consider fighting illegal immigration a worthy cause. This is simply an internet discussion board, so I really don’t care how others perceive me. When they start paying my bills, then I’ll care. Many considered Dr. King a communist and a threat to America. Now, he is revered worldwide, and commemorated with a federal holiday. Perhaps one day we (wacko anti-illegals) won’t seem quite so nutty.

Some anti-illegals have lost jobs or businesses due to illegal immigration; some have endured having their neighborhoods transformed into illegal alien crime-ridden barrios; while others have lost loved ones due to illegal alien criminal behavior. We used to have a regular member who lost his livelihood because he couldn’t compete against unscrupulous contractors. He was so viciously attacked and belittled by pro-illegals on a regular basis, until one day he completely lost it, and was banned. Things are not always as they appear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
How would you solve the problem?

How about:
1) re-write the tax code to ensure they are paying their fair share of taxes
2) make the immigration process smoother (as in not nearly impossible)
The tax code doesn’t need to be revised to accommodate people who have no right to be here. If they are legal employers/employees they should have few problems.

Our immigration laws should benefit our country. The process can’t be too daunting, given that we accept more legal immigrants than all other countries combined.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
E-verify away.

I touched on this earlier, but I don't think punishing the children (who are innocent in this matter) is the answer.
Children are often harmed due to parental criminality. It’s unfortunate, but such is life. I feel compassion for the innocent children, but I feel nothing but contempt for the ingrate DREAMies; who, by the way, are not children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
Gee, thanks.

The great thing about America, is that I am allowed to be arrogant if I want to be.
Yes indeed, you have that right. And, it is a right you enjoy because others were willing to fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
In conclusion: I'm not pro-illegal immgration (it's hard to say that there could even be such a thing), but I don't see a whole lot that would change if illegal immigration was stopped, reversed, or undone. There'd still be poor Latinos here, there'd still be people that don't speak English, there'd still be signs in Spanish, there'd still be crowded emergency rooms, free lunches, ESL classes, food stamps, section 8, jail, and prison.

And there wouldn't be a whole lot less of any of those things.
I have no problem with Spanish signage, poor Latinos, etc. as long as it is the result of legal immigration. Yes, we will always have crowded ER’s, welfare recipients, and crime. However, having millions of illegal aliens only exacerbates our problems. BTW, Mexican food is one of my favorites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
So why fight it?
Why fight it? For the same reasons we fight anything that is detrimental to our country.
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Old 02-25-2010, 10:59 AM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,207 posts, read 1,357,523 times
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Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Thanks for the clarification. When you mentioned they had no recourse, I wasn’t sure if you meant they “had” to come here illegally due to our “broken system” or what. Part of the problem is the coddling they receive. The guy you referenced should have been deported ages ago. They continue to receive a slap on the wrist, until they eventually maim or kill. Then, the punishment is still much too lenient.

His parents brought him here at age 4, and they alone are responsible for his illegal status.



In other words, they should run from their problems like cowards. How does that improve the lives of their countrymen who remain in Mexico? How will Mexico ever progress if no one has enough courage to challenge the status quo? We wouldn’t have this great nation if our citizens weren’t willing to make the ultimate sacrifice. If illegal are nebbish, they don’t deserve the rights and privileges we have in this country. If they won’t fight for Mexico, the land they love, they certainly won’t fight for the US.

Blacks didn’t have certain rights either, until they fought for those rights. I shudder to think of how life would be if not for their courage and resolve. Apparently, those characteristics are lacking in Mexico.



Should our immigration laws be designed to benefit us, or the impoverished who wish to come here? We have a selection process, and all cannot expect to be included. Perhaps if they remained in their country and postponed parenthood until they are responsible adults, and received more than a 5th grade education, they would substantially improve their chances.



You implied a similarity exists between European immigrants and Mexican illegal aliens, as though Mexicans entering this country illegally are essentially the same as the immigrants who came here through legal channels. That was the premise of my question.



And our country isn’t?



C’mon, you can’t believe that. If so, why isn’t Mexico a first-world country?

Yes, our middle class is shrinking due to job loss, and IMO, the problem is threefold: illegal immigration, outsourcing (China, India), and in-sourcing (H1-B, etc). Case in point, the construction industry. Prior to massive illegal immigration, construction work afforded one a middle class lifestyle. Now, illegal aliens dominate construction, and the greedy contractors are paying wages citizens received 10-15 years ago. Legitimate contractors simply can’t compete. Talk to a few “former” construction workers.

I believe the “fear” is justified. Countless employees have been replaced due to their inability to speak Spanish in an English-speaking country. If you decided to permanently relocate to a foreign country, would you expect the host country to accommodate you, or would you expect to learn their language?

I don’t believe ethnicity is an issue for most opponents of illegal immigration. Moreover, many “Hispanics” are in fact white. As a matter of fact, the majority of Hispanics responding to the last census self-identified as white. Furthermore, the 1950’s-era ended years ago. Today, one can live wherever one chooses, and interracial marriages are no longer taboo. Illegal aliens and their peddlers have manufactured an ethnic/racial component as a strategy to garner support.



If we continue along our current path, we WILL fall. And, illegal immigration will be a salient factor in our demise. Now that illegal immigration has surpassed legal immigration, it has become unsustainable. While most illegals are not violent criminals, many are, and they are wreaking havoc and overwhelming our penal systems. Additionally, the presence of millions of illegal aliens has increased our welfare rolls, created school budgetary deficits, and contributed to the closure of hospitals. How can this be considered beneficial to our country?



It is not anti-Hispanic sentiment. Who would you expect to receive the lion’s share of discussion in the Illegal Immigration Forum, if not the group comprising the vast majority of illegal immigrants? If we had massive illegal immigration from Ethiopia, they would be our primary focus. Not that they don’t exist, and we have certainly been visited by some on this forum, but I personally don’t know any anti-illegals who are anti-Hispanic. However, I do know some who are becoming anti-Hispanic due to massive Hispanic illegal immigration; which is unfortunate. All of the Hispanics I know oppose illegal immigration, particularly, the immigrants who played by the rules. Not to mention, the precarious conditions Hispanic illegal aliens have created for ALL non-white Hispanics.

We are all individuals with diverse interests. We also choose our battles; and I consider fighting illegal immigration a worthy cause. This is simply an internet discussion board, so I really don’t care how others perceive me. When they start paying my bills, then I’ll care. Many considered Dr. King a communist and a threat to America. Now, he is revered worldwide, and commemorated with a federal holiday. Perhaps one day we (wacko anti-illegals) won’t seem quite so nutty.

Some anti-illegals have lost jobs or businesses due to illegal immigration; some have endured having their neighborhoods transformed into illegal alien crime-ridden barrios; while others have lost loved ones due to illegal alien criminal behavior. We used to have a regular member who lost his livelihood because he couldn’t compete against unscrupulous contractors. He was so viciously attacked and belittled by pro-illegals on a regular basis, until one day he completely lost it, and was banned. Things are not always as they appear.



The tax code doesn’t need to be revised to accommodate people who have no right to be here. If they are legal employers/employees they should have few problems.

Our immigration laws should benefit our country. The process can’t be too daunting, given that we accept more legal immigrants than all other countries combined.



Children are often harmed due to parental criminality. It’s unfortunate, but such is life. I feel compassion for the innocent children, but I feel nothing but contempt for the ingrate DREAMies; who, by the way, are not children.



Yes indeed, you have that right. And, it is a right you enjoy because others were willing to fight.



I have no problem with Spanish signage, poor Latinos, etc. as long as it is the result of legal immigration. Yes, we will always have crowded ER’s, welfare recipients, and crime. However, having millions of illegal aliens only exacerbates our problems. BTW, Mexican food is one of my favorites.



Why fight it? For the same reasons we fight anything that is detrimental to our country.
Well, I guess that about sums it up..another great post Benicar and thank you for being so well informed, articulate and mature on this matter.
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