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Old 02-28-2010, 07:37 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,165,382 times
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Mr. Aguilar, just for you.

[SIZE=4]AGUILAR - Name [/SIZE][SIZE=2]Definition: One who came from Aguilas in Spain, a city near Córdoba; same origin as Aguiar, both from a Mozarabic knight of Toledo.
Surname Origin: Spanish

Anyone with a Spanish surname had ancestors from Spain and can be considered to be Hispanic at least partially because of such ancestry and particulary if their families spoke Spanish. I worked with many Filapinos at one time and many if not most with Hispanic surnames could speak Spanish along with one of their Filapino dialects. The Spanish were a dominant factor in the Philapines at one time.
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Old 02-28-2010, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Spokane, WA
12,845 posts, read 23,274,573 times
Reputation: 12238
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
First off Mr. Aguilar, I am not a dude but a dudette. (an assumption on YOUR part?)
Wow, I guess you just like to argue. I'll oblige.

"Dude", was more of an exclamation, like "DUDE!". Sorry if you were offended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Secondly, anyone with a Hispanic surname comes from Spanish ancestry whether they be Mexican, Filapino, etc. by nationality.
Sure, why not. The Spanish diaspora doesn't = Mexico, or illegal immigration advocacy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Thirdly, most Hispanics in this country are from Mexican ancestry and they are the ones who advocate for illegal aliens. The tone of your posts and your words indicate that you are an advocate.
I advocate nothing.

Just because most American Hispanics are Mexican, doesn't mean that I am (necessarily). I could be Puerto Rican, Dominican, Argentine, Chilean, Panamanian, Spanish, or Hispano, etc. I could claim no Hispanic background and still have a Hispanic last name. I want you to tell a couple of "Martinez" males I know how "Mexican" or "Hispanic" they are.

Your assumptions are tantamount to saying all whites are rich and republican, all Asians are smart, all blacks descend from slaves, etc. Obviously you don't know any better, and you assume that nobody can think for themselves, according to you they have to follow some sort of mantra defined only by their race/ethnic background.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
And finally those of English ancestry are not advocating for illegals from England, have usually been born here and have no interest in England. Not so with those of Mexican ancestry. Even many of those born here still act like Mexico is their homeland and Mexicans are their people.
I act nor feel like either. I'm not from Mexico (I was born in CA, for what it's worth). My parents aren't from Mexico (both born in CA too). 1 out of my 4 grandparents is from Mexico (where my dreaded last name comes from ). I have no allegiance to Mexico, and have been there a whopping three times, for vacations/day trips, not to visit "familia".

I don't feel like "Mexicans" (or anybody for that matter) are "my people". I do not judge people in such a way, and could care less about anybody's race, nationality, ethnic background, etc. I love, like, and hate equally.

I'm sure you'll enjoy the irony in this (the vote of "No Confidence" is a shame):
David V. Aguilar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
If I misunderstood your comments, “if they are caught committing a crime,” then what did you mean?
If they are caught doing anything. If they commit a crime, if they register for benefits, if they register a child in school, if they are pulled over, etc, they are saying "HELLO!, I'M HERE! CATCH ME!". If they somehow announce their presence in the U.S. I didn't say "committing a crime" (originally), I said if they were caught breaking a law. Any of those ways mentioned above would amount to breaking a law, as their legal status could be brought out in any of those instances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
No, you did not understand correctly. We already accept more legal immigrants than all other countries combined, so how are we making it impossible for them to become immigrants? I’m not following you.
You think these people who are poor illegals now would be able to apply for citizenship, and get it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Are you suggesting we should exchange U.S. citizenship for military service? If so, I disagree. We don’t need to offer citizenship when we can simply hire mercenaries. Once their job is complete, they expect nothing but their pay.
I don't see why not. Mercenaries haven't been used in America, IIRC. That's just inviting trouble IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
You are assuming we can’t curtail illegal immigration. It has already been proven they will leave if our laws are enforced. The majority are going to leave, one way or another, because the citizens of this country will demand it.
No objection by me. Americans can demand it, but will they get it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Obviously, we differ. While money is essential for survival, some of us will not compromise our principles for monetary gain. I could also sell weed and coke to augment my income, but then that would create a moral conflict. Ignoring the laws of a country, and relying on unethical behavior for survival, has absolutely no appeal to me.
Same here, but obviously it works for some people (it's probably rooted more in desperation, as opposed to greed).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Soon, the citizens of this country will have had enough. Just wait until those unemployment extensions expire, and citizens have no source of income. Do you actually believe they will tolerate having millions of illegals working in this country, while they have no means to support their families? Only 2-4% of illegals are working in the fields picking crops, so that leaves 96-98% working in construction, hospitality, restaurants, fast food, etc. Make no mistake, citizens will DEMAND those jobs.
That's great, but Americans have to wait for their unemployment to run out to go get a crappy job? I'm sorry, but if I ever (god forbid) lose my job, the last thing I would do is sit on my behind and collect unemployment. I'd be at McDonald's minutes after I lost my job (but I guess that's just me).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
If the majority of illegal aliens speak English, why is there such a tremendous need for Spanish translation? Why do we need to press 1 for English and 2 for Spanish?

Furthermore. . .

Even more troubling. . .

Pew Hispanic Center Study Suggests Linguistic Challenges Ahead for U.S.
10.7% of U.S. residents (native, legal, illegal, or otherwise) speak Spanish at home. 1 out of every 10 is obviously more comfortable speaking Spanish. That might be worth those businesses providing the "marque dos" option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
If it requires replacing every member of Congress, then that is what will be done. They are elected to represent their constituents, not kowtow to special interest groups and big business. Perhaps “We the People” need to send them a resounding message.
Fine with me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Mr. Aguilar, just for you.

[SIZE=4]AGUILAR - Name [/SIZE][font=verdana, geneva, helvetica][SIZE=2][color=#000000]Definition: One who came from Aguilas in Spain, a city near Córdoba; same origin as Aguiar, both from a Mozarabic knight of Toledo.
Surname Origin: Spanish

Anyone with a Spanish surname had ancestors from Spain and can be considered to be Hispanic at least partially because of such ancestry and particulary if their families spoke Spanish. I worked with many Filapinos at one time and many if not most with Hispanic surnames could speak Spanish along with one of their Filapino dialects. The Spanish were a dominant factor in the Philapines at one time.
IMO, Hispanic and Spanish should be classified differently. The only thing Spaniards have in common with Latin Americans is the Spanish language.

My family did not speak Spanish. I learned Spanish in high school, and practiced it at work and in the neighborhood. I've never met a Filipino that spoke Spanish, sorry.

You really need to read the thread about Americans considering Spaniards Hispanic.
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Old 02-28-2010, 10:11 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,165,382 times
Reputation: 2130
From about.com

What is a hispanic?


Glad you asked...
A Hispanic person is anyone who speaks Spanish or a related language, or whose decent is from any Spanish-speaking country. Originally, the term came from the ancient region of Hispania which became the Iberian Peninsula.
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Old 02-28-2010, 11:29 PM
 
Location: Spokane, WA
12,845 posts, read 23,274,573 times
Reputation: 12238
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
From about.com

What is a hispanic?


Glad you asked...
A Hispanic person is anyone who speaks Spanish or a related language, or whose decent is from any Spanish-speaking country. Originally, the term came from the ancient region of Hispania which became the Iberian Peninsula.
Yippie.

I said the definition was flawed, not that it was wrong.

Quote:
Still, other government agencies adopt definitions that exclude people from Spain, since there is a distinct ethnic difference (indigenous American or European American).
At any rate, what are you trying to prove?
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Old 03-01-2010, 06:58 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,907 posts, read 30,151,453 times
Reputation: 17731
So anyway...

Immigration reform cannot happen until a tamper proof ID and process is implemented. They may have a tamper proof ID but the special interest groups are making sure it can't be used to identify current workers for many businesses.

It appears the Pro-Illegals are blocking their own amnesty. So be it.
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:35 AM
Yac
 
5,877 posts, read 6,305,613 times
Back on topic people, please. And in case you're confused - whether someones name is hispanic or not, while not only being highly irrelevant is also highly off topic.
Yac.
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Old 03-01-2010, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,832,685 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
If they are caught doing anything. If they commit a crime, if they register for benefits, if they register a child in school, if they are pulled over, etc, they are saying "HELLO!, I'M HERE! CATCH ME!". If they somehow announce their presence in the U.S. I didn't say "committing a crime" (originally), I said if they were caught breaking a law. Any of those ways mentioned above would amount to breaking a law, as their legal status could be brought out in any of those instances.
Ok, I won’t belabor the issue of “breaking the law” vs. “committing a crime.” In any case, you feel they should only be deported if they are caught “doing something” as opposed to being depored for simply being here in violation of our laws. I disagree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
You think these people who are poor illegals now would be able to apply for citizenship, and get it?
Have we not granted visas to poor Mexicans? Are all of the legal Mexican immigrants in this country middle class or above? We are not obligated to accept every foreigner who desires to enter this country or become a U.S. citizen. Again, we don’t need to import poverty. Poor Mexicans are not entitled to illegally enter this country simply because they fail to meet our requirements. They must accept the fact that our needs have changed, and we no longer need poor/uneducated immigrants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
I don't see why not. Mercenaries haven't been used in America, IIRC. That's just inviting trouble IMO.
C’mon David, you can’t be that naive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
No objection by me. Americans can demand it, but will they get it?
Let’s hope we do, because the alternative won’t be pretty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
Same here, but obviously it works for some people (it's probably rooted more in desperation, as opposed to greed).
While many may come here out of desperation, that is not the only impetus. Many consider the U.S. an easy mark; which unfortunately, we are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
That's great, but Americans have to wait for their unemployment to run out to go get a crappy job? I'm sorry, but if I ever (god forbid) lose my job, the last thing I would do is sit on my behind and collect unemployment. I'd be at McDonald's minutes after I lost my job (but I guess that's just me).
Desperation, David. According to you, isn’t that the reason most illegals are here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
10.7% of U.S. residents (native, legal, illegal, or otherwise) speak Spanish at home. 1 out of every 10 is obviously more comfortable speaking Spanish. That might be worth those businesses providing the "marque dos" option.
You’re skirting the issue. The study indicates a whopping 71% of Mexican “immigrants” speak no English; and that 2 million "Americans" who were born in this country speak little or no English. What does that indicate?

You asked me to provide “proof” that most Mexican illegal aliens do not speak English. In response, I provided the census data you requested. Yet, you reference the amount of Spanish spoken at home.
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Old 03-01-2010, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Spokane, WA
12,845 posts, read 23,274,573 times
Reputation: 12238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Ok, I won’t belabor the issue of “breaking the law” vs. “committing a crime.” In any case, you feel they should only be deported if they are caught “doing something” as opposed to being depored for simply being here in violation of our laws. I disagree.
I guess you're still not getting it. How would we deport them if we don't know they're here? Do we have a database that tells us where all the illegal immigrants are living? Are we going to knock and every door and say, "If you're illegal, come outside.".?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Have we not granted visas to poor Mexicans? Are all of the legal Mexican immigrants in this country middle class or above? We are not obligated to accept every foreigner who desires to enter this country or become a U.S. citizen. Again, we don’t need to import poverty. Poor Mexicans are not entitled to illegally enter this country simply because they fail to meet our requirements. They must accept the fact that our needs have changed, and we no longer need poor/uneducated immigrants.
Visas are not the same thing as green cards and/or citizenship.

It's fine, I get it. I suppose the concept of the US being the "promised land" has expired, and is only available to those who have already done well enough for themselves elsewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Desperation, David. According to you, isn’t that the reason most illegals are here?
So Americans only need to take crappy jobs when they're desperate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
You’re skirting the issue. The study indicates a whopping 71% of Mexican “immigrants” speak no English; and that 2 million "Americans" who were born in this country speak little or no English. What does that indicate?
Does that include Puerto Rico?
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Old 03-01-2010, 01:32 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,085,116 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Mr. Aguilar, just for you.

[SIZE=4]AGUILAR - Name [/SIZE][SIZE=2]Definition: One who came from Aguilas in Spain, a city near Córdoba; same origin as Aguiar, both from a Mozarabic knight of Toledo.
Surname Origin: Spanish

Anyone with a Spanish surname had ancestors from Spain and can be considered to be Hispanic at least partially because of such ancestry and particulary if their families spoke Spanish. I worked with many Filapinos at one time and many if not most with Hispanic surnames could speak Spanish along with one of their Filapino dialects. The Spanish were a dominant factor in the Philapines at one time.
[/SIZE]
Right, because 2,000 Spanish speakers in the Philippines equates to a majority of speakers...the current estimates. So due to colonialism, these people are automatically Spanish while they haven't embraced said culture or even identify with said culture? That's like saying that people in Iowa are a part of the Francophone world...
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Old 03-01-2010, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,832,685 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
I guess you're still not getting it. How would we deport them if we don't know they're here? Do we have a database that tells us where all the illegal immigrants are living? Are we going to knock and every door and say, "If you're illegal, come outside.".?
Good point. How do we know they are actually picking our crops, making our beds, cleaning our toilets, etc, etc? How indeed, do we know, when no one seems to even know “who” they are or “where” they are? Yet, we are to believe our economy would collapse without them. We are frequently told they pay millions of dollars in taxes. Again, how do we know?

The only point I am trying to make is that whenever it is discovered that a person is an illegal alien, they should be deported. In some jurisdictions, illegal aliens cannot be reported to ICE unless they are arrested for committing a violent crime. They can be guilty of burglary, car theft, and various other criminal activities, but if no “violent” act has been committed, they are free to remain in this country. This is wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
Visas are not the same thing as green cards and/or citizenship.
If they are coming here primarily for jobs to feed their families back home, why does citizenship have to be part of the equation? Why won’t a work visa suffice? Moreover, most illegals have no desire to become U.S. citizens. They simply want to be granted permission to remain here without the fear of deportation. They don’t want to become “Americans” -- they just want the “American Dream.”

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
It's fine, I get it. I suppose the concept of the US being the "promised land" has expired, and is only available to those who have already done well enough for themselves elsewhere.
Yes, the U.S. is no longer the Promised Land. If immigrants will not benefit this country, we don’t need them. It is our right as a sovereign nation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
So Americans only need to take crappy jobs when they're desperate?
For some, the answer is yes. For others, they are already taking crappy jobs to feed their families. Why is it understandable that out of sheer desperation illegal aliens are here doing crappy jobs, yet you can’t fathom the same for a U.S. citizen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
Does that include Puerto Rico?
The study involved “immigrants.” Puerto Ricans are NOT immigrants.
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