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Old 02-23-2010, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Vermont
10,097 posts, read 10,632,104 times
Reputation: 13466

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The claims that illegal aliens are getting all kinds of welfare benefits are largely lies.

Anyone who claims that it would be a simple matter to find the millions of illegal aliens who are thought to be in the United States and deport them is kidding him/herself. It's also missing the point. People are saying not only that it would be difficult to deport them, but also that the American people would not tolerate the effects of such an effort. People will agree in principle with the idea of kicking people out, but once they see people getting rounded up and shipped across the borders they will have second thoughts.

Suggesting that mass deportations is the only solution misses the point. Greater and more effective enforcement of the borders, coupled with better enforcement of employer sanctions, will have an effect on the number of people entering illegally, and over time it will reduce the number of illegal aliens.
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Old 02-23-2010, 07:52 AM
 
1,042 posts, read 1,054,784 times
Reputation: 2365
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
They have invaded and overwhelmed the industry I work in. They have caused my wages to be stagnant for the last 20 years and now I'm to take a massive pay cut, to below poverty levels.

I work in the flooring industry, as an installer. I career I love to do and I'm dang good at. So don't come here and say they are doing jobs Americans won't do. More likely doing the jobs Americans can no longer afford to do, because of them being exploited.
They have put me out of work.
I don't know how to statistically prove it, but in my opinion the "success" that states like Texas tout regarding being "business friendly" and as a "jobs producer" are precisely because governments turn their back on the role that illegals play in the economy.

A very large illegal population has driven down wages and costs in much of the housing, skilled crafts, and service industries, and in a sense freed up capital which otherwise would have been given to workers had the wages not been skewed. This may be "good for business" because how else could a business that charges $18 to send 4 men to cut a 6000 sq ft lawn make a profit, for example, and an illegal willing to work 7 days a week at a lower wage will require fewer workers and reduce time to completion of many jobs.

An excuse made by business owners that they couldn't find "Americans" to do these jobs is valid, because illegals have everything to lose and are willing to put up with greater BS at lower pay. Many jobs would disappear if illegals were not used (no more $18 lawn service!), but right now in this economy there is a net positive impact of illegals in the labor force because their output and productivity is greater than the societal cost. The cost is borne by the ever reduced numbers of Americans capable of making a living at the professions displaced by the illegal workers, and as they are displaced they disappear, and the rest of society doesn't even notice.

The societal costs associated with illegals are much less (per capita) than legal and Americans, as illegals tend to avoid many of the governmental and social services available so as not to risk their status in the US. Texas, for example, has a huge number of poor people who do not receive government help (only 55% of eligible receive food stamps for example).

In Texas all that matters is the bottom line, and as long as people get their cheap day care, lawn service, restaurant meals, house cleaning, home repairs, etc and businesses make a profit at it the use of illegals will continue.

You know, all of those things which our parents and grandparents used to do for themselves.
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Old 02-23-2010, 09:00 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
60,578 posts, read 30,739,374 times
Reputation: 12912
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketSci View Post

The societal costs associated with illegals are much less (per capita) than legal and Americans, as illegals tend to avoid many of the governmental and social services available so as not to risk their status in the US. Texas, for example, has a huge number of poor people who do not receive government help (only 55% of eligible receive food stamps for example).

According to the FAIR website, and The Center for Immigration Studies
Illegal aliens cost American taxpayers in 2007, $385 Billion

In 2007 in cost every household in Texas, $841 a year for state funded service, on top of the federal cost, for illegal alien trespassers.
In California that cost rises to $1002, a year per household.

Those cost have risen since the study!!!!

Illegal Immigration | Center for Immigration Studies



That is not chump change!!

1 child here in Texas on Welfare, gets approximately $800 in monthly services and entitlements. 1 illegal alien trespasser, mother can drop 5-6 anchor babies and live better than most working full time jobs.
The children are a tool to profit from, and anchor them here to suck us dry for as long as they can have children. Then Baby daddy is also living in the subsidized housing, working as a subcontract construction worker, pulling in $600-$1500 a week.

They work the system well, once they get here.
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Old 02-23-2010, 09:38 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,496,636 times
Reputation: 47457
#4--a 21 million illegal worker invasion from mexico during a major recession??
"live and let live"??????
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Old 02-23-2010, 10:07 AM
 
1,042 posts, read 1,054,784 times
Reputation: 2365
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
According to the FAIR website, and The Center for Immigration Studies
Illegal aliens cost American taxpayers in 2007, $385 Billion

In 2007 in cost every household in Texas, $841 a year for state funded service, on top of the federal cost, for illegal alien trespassers.
In California that cost rises to $1002, a year per household.

Those cost have risen since the study!!!!

Illegal Immigration | Center for Immigration Studies



That is not chump change!!

1 child here in Texas on Welfare, gets approximately $800 in monthly services and entitlements. 1 illegal alien trespasser, mother can drop 5-6 anchor babies and live better than most working full time jobs.
The children are a tool to profit from, and anchor them here to suck us dry for as long as they can have children. Then Baby daddy is also living in the subsidized housing, working as a subcontract construction worker, pulling in $600-$1500 a week.

They work the system well, once they get here.
Sure, some people know how to work the system, but it is the business owners who are getting away with the most.

Let's say you have a crew of 6 you can pay $10 cash an hour for off the books, and who are willing to work steadily for 10-12 hours a day, 7 days a week, with no O/T or benefits. And, they have skills. The workers will then earn about $800 to $900 a week, and the expense to the business is about $5k to $6k a week.

To pay $10 net to a legal worker, the cost would be at least $13 to $15/hr to the employer, not including O/T costs or additional workers. That would add another 25 to 50% to the total costs. So, for legal workers to be hired at the same net pay, it would cost the employer nearly DOUBLE what illegals cost.

The other option for employers who want to protect their bottom line is to pay legal employees less - but even at minimum wage costs are still greater than paying illegals $10 off the books.

So, why don't businesses hire non-illegals off the books? Supply and demand - there are many many more illegals willing to work without benefits, and mixed crews tend to not work well together.

Less illegals = less profit or higher costs.

For every illegal alien worker being paid $10/hr, the businessman can see a savings of $10,000 to $20,000 per year, just based on the estimates above.

This system is PROMOTED by businesses, and as long as businesses are not held accountable it doesn't matter what is done with illegal aliens.

And before someone says lower the minimum wage, that is not a solution unless you have large numbers of people willing or able to perform the job at that wage level.

Last edited by RocketSci; 02-23-2010 at 10:10 AM.. Reason: addl
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:44 PM
 
8,640 posts, read 7,740,410 times
Reputation: 2854
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
According to the FAIR website, and The Center for Immigration Studies
Illegal aliens cost American taxpayers in 2007, $385 Billion

In 2007 in cost every household in Texas, $841 a year for state funded service, on top of the federal cost, for illegal alien trespassers.
In California that cost rises to $1002, a year per household.

Those cost have risen since the study!!!!

Illegal Immigration | Center for Immigration Studies



That is not chump change!!

1 child here in Texas on Welfare, gets approximately $800 in monthly services and entitlements. 1 illegal alien trespasser, mother can drop 5-6 anchor babies and live better than most working full time jobs.
The children are a tool to profit from, and anchor them here to suck us dry for as long as they can have children. Then Baby daddy is also living in the subsidized housing, working as a subcontract construction worker, pulling in $600-$1500 a week.

They work the system well, once they get here.
There are a lot of idiots in this country (usually liberals) that refuse to wake up to reality. Illegal immigrants receive all this welfare and then go work jobs for cash. What a deal!
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:54 PM
 
114 posts, read 94,805 times
Reputation: 38
Twice now, Californians have voted the illegals out, BUT it never happens. The corrupt politicians and judges in Sacramento always overrule the peoples wishes. So all I can say is, "GOOD LUCK" ..... because even if the entire nation voted on this, and it passed, it will NEVER HAPPEN!!!
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Old 02-23-2010, 03:48 PM
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,065 posts, read 21,193,396 times
Reputation: 22535
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmccullough View Post
The claims that illegal aliens are getting all kinds of welfare benefits are largely lies.

Anyone who claims that it would be a simple matter to find the millions of illegal aliens who are thought to be in the United States and deport them is kidding him/herself. It's also missing the point. People are saying not only that it would be difficult to deport them, but also that the American people would not tolerate the effects of such an effort. People will agree in principle with the idea of kicking people out, but once they see people getting rounded up and shipped across the borders they will have second thoughts.

Suggesting that mass deportations is the only solution misses the point. Greater and more effective enforcement of the borders, coupled with better enforcement of employer sanctions, will have an effect on the number of people entering illegally, and over time it will reduce the number of illegal aliens.
Deficit may trigger anti-illegal immigration ballot measure - Los Angeles Times

State officials estimate that they add between $4 billion and $6 billion in costs, primarily for prisons and jails, schools and emergency rooms. Beyond those services, the illegal population adds to the overall cost of other parts of local government, from police and fire protection to highway maintenance and libraries.

Center for Immigration Studies

Policing the border, enforcing the ban on hiring illegal aliens, denying temporary visas to those likely to remain permanently, and all the other things necessary to reduce illegal immigration will take time and cost money. However, since the cost of illegal immigration to the federal government alone is estimated at over $10 billion a year, significant resources could be devoted to enforcement efforts and still leave taxpayers with significant net savings. Enforcement not only has the advantage of reducing the costs of illegal immigration, it also is very popular with the general public. Nonetheless, policymakers can expect strong opposition from special interest groups, especially ethnic advocacy groups and those elements of the business community that do not want to invest in labor-saving devices and techniques or pay better salaries, but instead want access to large numbers of cheap, unskilled workers. If we choose to continue to not enforce the law or to grant illegals amnesty, both the public and policymakers have to understand that there will be significant long-term costs for taxpayers.
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Old 02-23-2010, 05:21 PM
 
29,926 posts, read 15,256,432 times
Reputation: 15653
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenching View Post
I could stop our southern illegal immigration very easily.

all the USA has to do is to buil our own panama canal along the southern border of Texas from east to west. A canal 1 mile wide and .5 miles deep with sheer walls 500 feet high.
Did they go and re-define "easily" when I wasn't looking?
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Old 02-23-2010, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
1,765 posts, read 1,866,193 times
Reputation: 827
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketSci View Post

This system is PROMOTED by businesses, and as long as businesses are not held accountable it doesn't matter what is done with illegal aliens.
Truer words have never been spoken. Which is also partly why I'm not a big fan of putting "small businesses" on a pedestal...
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