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Old 02-28-2010, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 4,724,615 times
Reputation: 815

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Quote:
Seriously Clarks, you are the one who needs to keep up. With all of your demands, all have complied yet you still have not changed from your blah blah blah. Other viable choices have been given to you and you dismiss them, cause only you are the only expert in your head. Very arrogant.

I am still waiting for a solution from one of you folks, so far all we are getting is complaining. Let me try this again, the crops need harvesting, how is it going to get done?

Sorry, but the days of cheap labor is gone...bye-bye.

You keep referencing that illegals are cheap labor. Not everyone in the fields is illegal, citizens and illegals are paid the same, which could be 8-10 bucks an hour minimum on wage, and 20-30 bucks an hour on piecework, now, I could be wrong, but 20-30 bucks an hour does not seem like cheap labor to me. If I seem arrogant, or a know it all, remember, "a one eyed man is king in the land of the blind"

None of you have demonstrated the faintest idea of how produce farming works, anyone with any knowledge is more knowledgeable than you. You just keep coming back to;"the illegals must go" which is fine, but what fills the vacuum?


Citizens and legal residents are here, and there is no law preventing them from working the fields, but, very few are showing up to do the work.

The pay is roughly equivalent to what Federal wild fire firefighters make, and that work is more difficult, yet is done by citizens, and plenty of young men and women show up to do that work, so the cheap labor argument has yet another hole in it.
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Old 02-28-2010, 10:21 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,160,108 times
Reputation: 2130
Tell you what Clarks, why don't you and all the other farmers/growers stop growing crops and tell our government it is because you can't hire illegal aliens to pick them and see how fast our government rectifies the situation in a legal manner.
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Old 02-28-2010, 02:59 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,826 posts, read 30,101,014 times
Reputation: 17698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
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Let's see your want ad for 30 bucks an hour.
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Old 02-28-2010, 04:48 PM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,206 posts, read 2,140,273 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
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Number one, I doubt you are paying 20-30 per hour, please. Secondly, I did give you solutions...parolees, work release programs, group organizations, churches, ADs TO AMERICAN WORKERS FOR 30 per hour!.. I guarantee that will land many American a new career from across the nation!!! I also like chicagonuts idea, tell the government and see what they do.
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Old 02-28-2010, 09:18 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,826 posts, read 30,101,014 times
Reputation: 17698
Quote:
Originally Posted by getout View Post
Number one, I doubt you are paying 20-30 per hour, please. Secondly, I did give you solutions...parolees, work release programs, group organizations, churches, ADs TO AMERICAN WORKERS FOR 30 per hour!.. I guarantee that will land many American a new career from across the nation!!! I also like chicagonuts idea, tell the government and see what they do.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, catch me if I fall, but I'll guess said "job" is 3 bucks and hour and they can live in a Canyon with no facilities so the tax payers (you and I) can pick up the tab so businesses like this can make a profit.

If businesses like the above can't turn a profit without slave like labor they need to fail. They already make a cabbage harvesting machine but I am sure that would cut into the profits of those using the slave labor circa the 1850s.
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:51 AM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,206 posts, read 2,140,273 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
I'm going to go out on a limb here, catch me if I fall, but I'll guess said "job" is 3 bucks and hour and they can live in a Canyon with no facilities so the tax payers (you and I) can pick up the tab so businesses like this can make a profit.

If businesses like the above can't turn a profit without slave like labor they need to fail. They already make a cabbage harvesting machine but I am sure that would cut into the profits of those using the slave labor circa the 1850s.
Parolees were paid the exact wage as any other, laborer or skilled. They've "paid their debt". Work release were paid the same fair wage to be put into their "jail account", were brought to the site each morning and returned to the facility after work was completed.

Here's a general link as to how it works:

NC Department of Correction news release - Work release prepares Charlotte Correctional Center prisoners for a job
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Old 03-01-2010, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 4,724,615 times
Reputation: 815
Quote:
Number one, I doubt you are paying 20-30 per hour, please. Secondly, I did give you solutions...parolees, work release programs, group organizations, churches, ADs TO AMERICAN WORKERS FOR 30 per hour!.. I guarantee that will land many American a new career from across the nation!!! I also like chicagonuts idea, tell the government and see what they do.
The biggest problem with attempting to educate ya'll is that you appear to be completely unfamiliar with farming.

No where did I say a work got paid 30 bucks an hour. Go back, read my posts, then look up the word "piecework"

Quote:
If businesses like the above can't turn a profit without slave like labor they need to fail. They already make a cabbage harvesting machine but I am sure that would cut into the profits of those using the slave labor circa the 1850s.
Your sentence shows that you know nothing about AG economics, it is nearly always cheaper to use machines than workers, which is why you don't see gangs of men with sythes harvesting and bundling wheat. If a cabbage harvesting machine worked, it would be used, just as every other crop that can be machine harvested is.

A quick story for you. In the years before the mid 1970's American enjoyed good salad tomatoes grown on American soil and hand picked by field labor. When the Cesar Chavez union struck the tomato fields the growers went to UC Davis and said, we need a tomato picking machine. They got one, but it could not pick the soft skinned round salad tomatoes. Those tomatoes disappeared from the fields replaced by tough skinned oblong tomatoes suitable only for canning, which could be harvested by the machine.

The salad tomato operations were moved to Mexico and the United States became a salad tomato importer.

To call field work something that resembles slave labor shows absolutely no knowledge of farming. A paramedic, you know, the guy that saves your life if you are in a wreck starts about $800 a week. A farmworker at 10 bucks an hour, 10 hour day, 6 days a week will make about 600 bucks a week, at piecework, more. If you want to consider the work itself slave like, it is easier than fighting wildfires, a job done with great satisfaction by citizens.

If you think those hours are slave hours, you have never owned your own business.

Quote:
Secondly, I did give you solutions...parolees, work release programs, group organizations, churches, ADs TO AMERICAN WORKERS FOR 30 per hour!..
If you want these people working for you, that is great, but field work is all about production, you need people that can work their butt off 10 hours a day.
When I was young, the white kids like me in our town did work in the fields, and the Mexicans did work much faster. It was not in the farmers best interest to hire slow workers, and they no longer do.

Quote:
Tell you what Clarks, why don't you and all the other farmers/growers stop growing crops and tell our government it is because you can't hire illegal aliens to pick them and see how fast our government rectifies the situation in a legal manner.
Since most growers are far to busy sticking gross profits in offshore accounts and paying for super yachts and Caribbean condos and super model shopping sprees to take the time to unite thousands of American farmers and growers to starve the Americans, perhaps you could begin this program, take the lead, show these darned antisocialist conservative Republicans why it is in their best interests to shut down their farms.

In the meantime, the work of feeding this nation continues, if any of you wanted to understand why farming is what it is today, I have been doing my best to educate you. What I see though is that your ideology renders you impervious to data, which is not unusual, but it makes acquiring knowledge a difficult prospect.
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Old 03-01-2010, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,650,644 times
Reputation: 3785
Bottom line: if a business needs illegal aliens to survive...............said business does not deserve to exist. Especially in this nasty recession.
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Old 03-01-2010, 10:22 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,160,108 times
Reputation: 2130
"When I was young, the white kids like me in our town did work in the fields, and the Mexicans did work much faster. It was not in the farmers best interest to hire slow workers, and they no longer do."

Talk about stereotyping races. This is a prime example of it!

I am not a farmer/grower. But as I said, H2-A visas are readily available. Why not demand that our government fine tune the system then if there are problems with it rather than continuing down the road of violating our immigration laws?
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Old 03-01-2010, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 4,724,615 times
Reputation: 815
Quote:
Talk about stereotyping races. This is a prime example of it!

Look, there are no white Americans working in the fields, the jobs are there, you figure it out.

I am not a farmer/grower. But as I said, H2-A visas are readily available. Why not demand that our government fine tune the system then if there are problems with it rather than continuing down the road of violating our immigration laws?

How many times do I have to repeat this simple phrase; the H2A program was designed not to work. it was designed as a sop to people like you, you cannot fine tune a car with a blown engine.

You want a new engine? Great, whatcha doing about it?

...
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