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Old 03-02-2010, 09:45 PM
 
Location: central Oregon
1,856 posts, read 2,025,067 times
Reputation: 2377

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Actually, it doesn't. It would be the contractor who would be the guilty party in the eyes of the law.
I realize this. However, he insists he is innocent and he isn't.
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Old 03-03-2010, 05:42 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,798 posts, read 30,025,534 times
Reputation: 17682
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
You just contradicted yourself there. If a person is here illegally; their paperwork by default is fraudulent.
Also, why would someone hire a worker if they knew the papers were being presented by an Illegal Alien? I'd be calling ICE and the Police as it's fraud just like stealing a credit card number off the net and trying to use it at a local store. Or witnessing someone trying to use a stolen CC.


Simple analogy. If the only person buying cigs in your store is someone you know is 15 do you sell to them? Do you sell if that's the only way to unload your wares? Do you ask them to present ID, know it's fake yet sell them to a minor anyway? There are a lot of moral issues going on with situations like these too. If you can't do business without it being done somehow illegally, should you be in business?
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Old 03-03-2010, 06:04 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Also, why would someone hire a worker if they knew the papers were being presented by an Illegal Alien? I'd be calling ICE and the Police as it's fraud just like stealing a credit card number off the net and trying to use it at a local store. Or witnessing someone trying to use a stolen CC.


Simple analogy. If the only person buying cigs in your store is someone you know is 15 do you sell to them? Do you sell if that's the only way to unload your wares? Do you ask them to present ID, know it's fake yet sell them to a minor anyway? There are a lot of moral issues going on with situations like these too. If you can't do business without it being done somehow illegally, should you be in business?
Thank you.
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Old 03-03-2010, 06:44 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by tulani View Post
I realize this. However, he insists he is innocent and he isn't.
You are correct. Although Clarks hires the contractor, if the contractor fails to carry the required insurance on his employees, and an employee is injured on the job, or damages property, Clarks would be held liable. Moreover, if the contractor fails to pay the employees or suppliers, they can place a lien on Clarks’ property and through the court force him to sell his house to satisfy the obligation. The fact that he “assumed” the contractor had all of his ducks in a row would not absolve him of liability. It would behoove anyone hiring a contractor to ensure they are operating within the law. A legitimate business owner would consider it a priority.
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Old 03-03-2010, 10:16 AM
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,043 posts, read 21,154,444 times
Reputation: 22514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
Here is the problem, I am not sure you understand it. This thread is about H2A and how it affects growers. Got that? Good.
There is a lot of bad information, probably from Glenn Beck and his ilk about illegal aliens and field labor.

If you sit in your classroom and say everything the teacher says is wrong, while the teacher is correcting your bad information, and you call that futile sparring, you are exactly right.

But, that does not mean in actuality, that it is futile sparring, it is, presenting accurate information to people who do not want to hear it.

Kind of like a science teacher going into a nice Baptist school and presenting information on Evolution.

If you want to call the ensuing complaints from the Baptists futile sparring, again you are exactly right. Got it?

Arizona Bear, 0 for four actually, it was you that talked of the non existent slave conditions and the non existent cheap labor.
Your hollow ostentatiousness reminds me of The Emperor's New Clothes.

You wear them well.
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Old 03-03-2010, 11:26 AM
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,043 posts, read 21,154,444 times
Reputation: 22514
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Your post makes way too much sense for a pro illegal apologist.
And to date, he has failed to respond to any of the points I brought up in my initial post.

I guess some folks just find bashing others in a forum and bringing in countless straw man arguments more worthy of their time than actually focusing on the subject of these threads.
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Old 03-03-2010, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
And to date, he has failed to respond to any of the points I brought up in my initial post.

I guess some folks just find bashing others in a forum and bringing in countless straw man arguments more worthy of their time than actually focusing on the subject of these threads.
Well; the pro illegal side is losing the war, one battle at a time---------especially with this de facto depression we are in. It is rather amusing watching certain posters resort to barely veiled personal attacks--------it is underlining their impotent fury.
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Old 03-03-2010, 12:53 PM
 
Location: central Oregon
1,856 posts, read 2,025,067 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
You are correct. Although Clarks hires the contractor, if the contractor fails to carry the required insurance on his employees, and an employee is injured on the job, or damages property, Clarks would be held liable. Moreover, if the contractor fails to pay the employees or suppliers, they can place a lien on Clarks’ property and through the court force him to sell his house to satisfy the obligation. The fact that he “assumed” the contractor had all of his ducks in a row would not absolve him of liability. It would behoove anyone hiring a contractor to ensure they are operating within the law. A legitimate business owner would consider it a priority.
Thank you. This is what I was thinking. And it's been said before on this very forum.
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