U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 03-06-2010, 12:23 AM
 
4,271 posts, read 7,887,141 times
Reputation: 1552

Advertisements

1AngryTaxPayer: I think we need to have an understanding of things. Let's review.

Your reply was:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Umm there are millions of them here without income. They are living off of the US tax payers via their "American" children. If spaced out correctly they can have a kid once every 3-5 years and live off govt subsidies.
In order for someone to not have income, he or she would have to be enrolled in a comprehensive welfare program that covers all living expenses.

Snopes explains what welfare benefits illegals can receive: snopes.com: Just One State - Cost of Illegals in Los Angeles

"Although illegal aliens are not generally eligible to collect public welfare benefits, an illegal alien may receive benefits under the Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) and Food Stamps programs on behalf of his or her U.S. citizen child. (Any child born in the United States is considered a U.S. citizen, regardless of the parents' immigration status.) A 1997 General Accounting Office (GAO) determined that in 1995 households headed by illegal aliens received a total of in AFDC benefits and in Food Stamps."

AFDC doesn't exist anymore. While food stamps still do, I have the impression that it's not enough to live off of whatever food stamps that a family of illegals can get, and that they still need a source of income. Your statement said to "not have income..."


So this was my reply:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
As a curiosity, which sources state the estimated numbers of illegal immigrants who are living off of welfare and contributing no income? Which sources explain the process that you are talking about?
I specifically was asking for estimates of numbers of illegal immigrants who were receiving benefits and were not working at all, i.e. living off of welfare.

Your reply was:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
You are kidding aren't you? No school can turn away a child of an Illegal. No ER can turn away a child of an Illegal. An American child of an Illegal qualifies for Govt services based on the quotes given to the agency by the Illegal themselves. They don't have to show a tax return do they, come on. They get fed morning and noon by the schools. Is that not living off of a Govt agency? How much are the Illegals shelling out for this? How much do the Illegals pay to have their kids bused across town? Answer.... nothing. How much does the WIC program get ripped off? Well, they are Americans right? By being born on US soil. Nothing wrong with that right? Dash across the border and it's all fair game. What kind of person does this? What kind of moral compass do these people have?

There are no jobs. Why don't YOU tell us how they are getting by?
"No school can turn away a child of an Illegal. No ER can turn away a child of an Illegal." - Both are true, but my reply was not addressing either of those points.

"An American child of an Illegal qualifies for Govt services based on the quotes given to the agency by the Illegal themselves." - As Snopes said, illegals do qualify for some welfare if they have American children, but the article does not state that this is enough welfare to live off of without working

"How much do the Illegals pay to have their kids bused across town? Answer.... nothing."

The answer is "it depends, but it usually isn't very much"

In regards to "bused across town," you may be thinking of LAUSD, where kids are required to be bussed to certain schools because the ones they are zoned to are too full. That problem is very specific to that district. In many cases illegals may live so close to school that they don't qualify for bus service. Also how much the illegals pay in taxes to the district depends on the living arrangement and the taxation system. It depends on how much they spend on sales taxes, or if they "double up" in apartment complexes, or how much rent they pay. But it usually isn't very much.

"How much does the WIC program get ripped off?"

The article from the Bakersfield Californian has a snippet, but I don't have the rest of the article: Bakersfield.com - Kern County news, events, shopping & search
"But Sperl said WIC aid to illegal immigrants can actually turn into a savings to tax payers because, "For every dollar you spend on WIC you save $3 in..." -- I don't know who Sperl is and I don't know the rest of the sentence.

"Dash across the border and it's all fair game."

In many cases that's a mischaracterization or one that can be misinterpreted. In many cities the illegals giving birth had been there for a long time.

snopes.com: Parkland Memorial Hospital and Illegal Immigrants

"While Texas border hospitals often get "anchor babies" — children of Mexican women who dart across the border to give birth to an American citizen — most illegal immigrants who go to major hospitals in Texas can show that they have been living here for years, said Ernie Schmid, policy director at the Texas Hospital Association. Many immigrant families have mixed status; often a patient with no documents has a spouse or children who are legal. "

"What kind of moral compass do these people have?" - I don't know - I guess it depends on who it is and exactly what he or she is doing while over here.

"There are no jobs. Why don't YOU tell us how they are getting by?" - Well, they may be doing better than the American high school dropouts (including children of immigrants who flunk out of high school)

What I didn't see in your reply is an assessment of how illegal immigrants were receiving benefits and were not working at all, i.e. living off of welfare. That's what I would like to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerrymac View Post
Why.....Because this country is run by fools!
That doesn't seem to be a good assessment of the situation. The people who decided Plyler v. Doe were a group of men and women handpicked by various presidents and approved by various Congresses. They were appointed for life (unless revoked due to misconduct). They alone decided Plyler v. Doe. This was from a system carefully designed by the Founding Fathers in Philadelphia. So, kerrymac, would you instead say that the Supreme Court members were fools?

 
Old 03-06-2010, 04:31 AM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 4,086,323 times
Reputation: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Yes, we are all aware of the law which mandates the squandering of our tax dollars on illegal aliens. This law also has contributed to the overcrowding of schools, and huge budget deficits. Not only are we paying for the education of people whose mere presence is a violation of our laws, but also Mexicans who exploit this asinine law by commuting daily from Mexico to ďget a better education.Ē Yes, we realize we are being abused. Thanks for the reminder.

Denying them an education does not further the goal of the state? Really? Does insolvency further the goal of the state?



Mexican Kids Cross Border Daily For Free U.S. Education | Judicial Watch

Texas school district turns away students from Mexico - CNN.com
there is a difference in the Supreme courts ruling and what Texas is Doing, Texas allows undocumented children to attend school in the district they reside, that intitles Texas to collect federal funds for that child in that seat. Texas does not allow for a child to attend school if from out of that school's district...A child in the seat from outside the distrct has not recieved funds to attend that school. Since the child from across the border, is not a resident of the district, The School district doesnt want him there. Illegal or citizen.
 
Old 03-06-2010, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
mozdzierz:

I must add that taxation also affects permanent residents who pay property, income, and sales taxes, temporary visitors who spend money and pay sales taxes, and illegals who pay property, income (including Social Security, which illegals rightfully do not get the privileges to), and sales taxes. Taxes aren't only for the citizens.

As for "elected officials" - the US Supreme Court is not elected, and this is a deliberate setup by the founding fathers, who did not want "mob rule" (uninformed rule by people) - The true ruler of the United States of America is not really the American people, so much as it is the U.S. Constitution.

Quite frankly, Plyler v. Doe is not a public policy matter, because it is highly unlikely that a constitutional amendment reversing it would be passed. Because it is not a feasible matter of public policy, I think it is a waste of time to directly complain about and challenge the fact that illegal immigrant children go to school.

I say directly because anti-illegal immigration activists could advocate for making it more difficult for illegal immigrants to get jobs in their jurisdictions, or for other things that indirectly limit the numbers of illegal immigrant children in school. Honestly I think people should discuss indirect ways to limit kids in school - there's no hassle about having to deal with the Supreme Court ruling that way. If Joe Bob from Whateverland can't get an illegal immigrant job in the USA, it's highly unlikely that his children will go to American schools.
If a group of lawyers from MALDEF managed to have our laws changed to mandate a tax-funded K-12 education for illegal aliens, why canít the same be done to reverse it? Itís a travesty.
 
Old 03-06-2010, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
there is a difference in the Supreme courts ruling and what Texas is Doing, Texas allows undocumented children to attend school in the district they reside, that intitles Texas to collect federal funds for that child in that seat. Texas does not allow for a child to attend school if from out of that school's district...A child in the seat from outside the distrct has not recieved funds to attend that school. Since the child from across the border, is not a resident of the district, The School district doesnt want him there. Illegal or citizen.
Through fraud, they circumvent Texas laws, just as they circumvent other laws in this country.
 
Old 03-06-2010, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Texas
2,847 posts, read 1,851,024 times
Reputation: 1741
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
there is a difference in the Supreme courts ruling and what Texas is Doing, Texas allows undocumented children to attend school in the district they reside, that intitles Texas to collect federal funds for that child in that seat. Texas does not allow for a child to attend school if from out of that school's district...A child in the seat from outside the distrct has not recieved funds to attend that school. Since the child from across the border, is not a resident of the district, The School district doesnt want him there. Illegal or citizen.
well it doesn't work I personally know of 5 illegal children in our schools. no questions asked.
 
Old 03-06-2010, 09:08 AM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 4,086,323 times
Reputation: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by aliveandwellinSA View Post
well it doesn't work I personally know of 5 illegal children in our schools. no questions asked.
do they live/reside in your district?
 
Old 03-06-2010, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Texas
2,847 posts, read 1,851,024 times
Reputation: 1741
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
do they live/reside in your district?
no, some in Austin, some in Arizona, some in Kerrville and some in Helotes.
 
Old 03-07-2010, 06:26 AM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 4,086,323 times
Reputation: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by aliveandwellinSA View Post
no, some in Austin, some in Arizona, some in Kerrville and some in Helotes.
Maybe i didnt put my question correctly...

in Texas, are the kids living in the the school district where they attend school.

does the kid in Kerrville attend and live/ reside in the KISD?
if the kid lives right out side the district, the district may allow him to attend, since there is not another district in the area.

Austin maybe slightly different in that, within the AISD, each school may have a boundry area. So if the child lives in the Mayberry Elemenry school boundry, he would not be able to attend the Rockfish Elemenrty school.
 
Old 03-07-2010, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
Maybe i didnt put my question correctly...

in Texas, are the kids living in the the school district where they attend school.

does the kid in Kerrville attend and live/ reside in the KISD?
if the kid lives right out side the district, the district may allow him to attend, since there is not another district in the area.

Austin maybe slightly different in that, within the AISD, each school may have a boundry area. So if the child lives in the Mayberry Elemenry school boundry, he would not be able to attend the Rockfish Elemenrty school.
I donít think you have considered the fact that it doesnít matter where they actually live, because they will use fraud to attend schools wherever they choose. Illegals have grown accustomed to circumventing our laws. Itís an integral part of the illegal alien experience, and it wonít change even with legalization.
 
Old 03-07-2010, 08:06 AM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 4,086,323 times
Reputation: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I don’t think you have considered the fact that it doesn’t matter where they actually live, because they will use fraud to attend schools wherever they choose. Illegals have grown accustomed to circumventing our laws. It’s an integral part of the illegal alien experience, and it won’t change even with legalization.
Illegal kids are allowed to attend school. the difference from the illegals allowed to attend and not is location.

illegals here, are allowed to attend school in the school district in which they reside. Down in the Texas Rio Grande Valley, Mexican kids living in Mexico that cross the border legally every day...to attend school in Texas are not allowed by the school district and State Education Agency.

Why, because the day-crosser doesnt live i the school's district...

This nothing to do with law breaking, this has to do with Texas law, Day-crossers, and the Supreme Court ruling.

Sometimes you have to have a discussion that doesnt revert back to ...cuz it illegal. This is real life...day-to-day American immigration issues.

In your post you highlighted two links to the issue of border states not allowing day-crosser from attending school in the US.

These are two different issues...illegal children being able to attend school in the US per the Ruling of the Supreme Court...and the Denying of Mexican kids from crossing the border on a daily basis, to attend school in the US.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top