Americans still doing the work, anything they can get (license, illegal aliens, law)

[faith10]

Who is trying to fool the American people that illegals are doing the work that Americans refuse to do? Corporate America. Americans did the work before the illegal invasion just fine. Illegals and employers pushed American workers out of some jobs, such as gardening, therefore Americans had to find other similar or even lower paying jobs to survive based on their skills. While a few Americans are able to get better jobs for better pay through education, the majority have not...they need to work 24-7. Americans cannot magically move up the ladder to another profession that pays better without time for higher education. The American majority are struggling at the same type of work or equal to it, at today's pay rates, and very many are competing with illegals for jobs. Many Americans have seen a dramatic rise in their cost of living with millions of these having slipped through the cracks into poverty.

[Torn2pieces]

Illegals are hurting the Americans, not helping.

[Humanoid]

the majority have not...they need to work 24-7.

Do you have any data that actually shows this? Median incomes are still strong:

Income - Median Family Income in the Past 12 Months by Family Size

[chele123]

You consider $41K a strong median income for a family of two? Hubby and I are in that bracket. Basic economics. No kids, no house payment, no vehicle payments and while we are not exactly short of cash, we are not flush either. If we were young and just starting out we would have home payments and vehicle payments and then that 41K would be stretched too thin and second jobs would be in order.

Illegal aliens are taking many of the entry level jobs that kids and lesser educated adults used to do. Why should Americans be FORCED to higher education to accomodate illegal alien employment? The argument that illegal aliens are doing the jobs American won't do is used to try and rationalize their being here and the lack of law enforcement. It's just so much easier to do nothing and just let them stay, isn't it?

[faith10]

Originally Posted by Humanoid

Do you have any data that actually shows this? Median incomes are still strong:

Income - Median Family Income in the Past 12 Months by Family Size

What I'm saying is that the majority of people who are poor tend to stay poor, and the majority of people who are middle income tend to stay middle. The poor don't get to middle class without higher education and for many their are obstacles toward this end. Median incomes do not go far in Ca. anymore, especially So. Ca., because the cost of living is so high. Only around 15% can afford to buy ANY HOUSE in Ca., and this percentage is even less in So. Ca. Also rentals are out of sight for millions, anyone in lower wage category. Population growth drives up cost of living.

[eaglecall]

In the first place, those illegal criminal aliens shouldn't be here.
Second, their hand labor compared with American hand labor, is disgusting. Mediocre, bad quality, cheap. Companies have taken advantage of that, and that's where the government has failed once again. Not only this administration, but all of them from 50 yeaars ago or more.

[Humanoid]

You consider $41K a strong median income for a family of two?

Depends where you are living. In some places $41k is enough for a family of two.

What I'm saying is that the majority of people who are poor tend to stay poor, and the majority of people who are middle income tend to stay middle.

Ok, I wouldn't disgree with this. Although you may want to think about why its true. But I don't see what this has to do with your points about illegal immigration.

Median incomes do not go far in Ca. anymore, especially So. Ca., because the cost of living is so high. Only around 15% can afford to buy ANY HOUSE in Ca., and this percentage is even less in So. Ca. Also rentals are out of sight for millions, anyone in lower wage category. Population growth drives up cost of living.

California's median income is 61k, that is enough to live in most areas of the state. It seems you are equating "cost of living" with "cost of housing". Do you know how inflation is calculated? If the cost of living was truly going up much faster than before then you're talking about high inflation, but we aren't seeing inflation no greater than 3%. Notice though that asset prices (such as homes) aren't part of how the gov determines inflation. So in CA you have something very weird. The cost of a homes has doubled in many areas in the last 5-7 years, but rents have only done up around 15-20% which matches the rate of inflation. Also when you point out that only 15% can afford a house in CA all you're saying is that the price of homes is going to drop dramatically. How can home prices raise if nobody can afford the current pricing? Supply and demand is king.

[faith10]

CA housing prices have dropped only very slightly and few people can afford them and that is the important point. Rentals have also risen in the last two months again, 7% was announced on the news. The lower income earners cannot afford a rental starting at $1100 when they bring home $900 to $1400 per mo. in earned wages. This is why homelessness is up 50% last year with many children in families living on streets or in vehicles, also middle aged and older in the same boat. The cost of living is high in Ca. overall, but there are many millions of poor making wages that have been kept down or lowered for many years by employers. Illegals is why.

[Humanoid]

CA housing prices have dropped only very slightly and few people can afford them and that is the important point.

Sure, but I don't think you got my point. You suggested that the housing prices are due to illegals, but then why are they dropping? They illegals didn't leave. Anyhow, prices are going to drop much more. Right now there is a "war" between sellers and buyers, the sellers don't want to drop the prices on their overpriced homes and the buyers no longer have the means to buy them (for many reasons). Needless to say the sellers aren't going to win, but you won't see the big drops until next year's selling season.

Rentals have also risen in the last two months again, 7% was announced on the news.

What are you even talking about? Housing is local there are plenty of places where it isn't going up at all. Also, I've heard that 7% figure and its pimped by realtors that want people to buy houses, they are trying to scare people into purchasing homes.

when they bring home $900 to $1400 per mo. in earned wages.

The only people that earn that are people with no skills or teenagers. I've seen chimps easily get jobs that pay $2000 a month in California. Also, I really have no sympathy for people making min-wage. They have many options, but they don't take them. They just complain. In most states they can go to local communities colleges for free and learn new skills by taking night classes or for under 100 bucks in filing fees they can start a business. Seriously I've seen so many people from poor countries come here and open businesses. What do they have that these guys have that min-wage American workers don't? Determination and a lot of balls. In America people earn their place in life and thats why its so great.

[faith10]

Yes the illegals are leaving too, they are the group that is leaving the most. Many citizens cannot afford to leave, we don't live many to a house. Houses dropping 1 to 2 percent is in order to sell them, so the realtors tell me.
So. CA is where rental prices are going up again, but many could not afford them before this. I bring home $1000 per mo working full time and have two licenses, can 'barely' work, and many other people do not have options for various reasons; they are already working two jobs, overtime, children, illness, injury, etc. College was never free for me. Rentals start at around $1100 so I cannot afford my own place. Don't know where you are from, but your view of So. CA is like it was many years ago here right before all the illegals came and ruined citizens finances. Your view is like it still is in some other states until more illegals arrive, that is.