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Old 03-31-2010, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Denver
9,224 posts, read 15,903,815 times
Reputation: 5487

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Facts? While your facts may be true for some people in some areas it is not true of all 50 states and all towns accross America.
What would happen if Illegals got the boot? America would do what we do best. Adapt.
Imagine forcing the corporate farms to pay a fair wage? Imagine forcing Hotels to hire only legals? Would prices double? NO because the wages would not double. Save the scare tactics for the impressionable. We need illegals like we need more criminals. Oh wait one and the same. Let me try again.
We need illegals like we need more unemployment
.
Seems like such an easy thing to say huh? But I think prices would go up dramatically, unless the employer continues to bypass law.

Not only would wages go up, but the employer would now be responsible for workers comp, taxes...healthcare etc...

Let's say some is making $8.00 an hour illegally would be making $12.00 an hour legally, but the employer is actually paying a "Total Cost" of $16.00 after paying all of the employee related expenses. Wouldn't that in effect double the prices at the bottom line? At least for the labor portion.
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:50 AM
 
Location: San Diego
34,965 posts, read 31,977,547 times
Reputation: 19440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
The rancher was, according to the news reports, not killed by an illegal immigrant, which is what this forum is about. He was apparently killed by a criminal, the ethnicity of which is un important, thousands of people are killed by criminals in this country each year.

and Yes, your Saint Patrick's day cabbage had an 80% chance of having been picked by an illegal.
You see, in theory there is no difference between theory and practice, in practice there is.

While the illegal immigration opponents have every right to their opinion, the fact remains that they are dependent on those illegals currently in the nation for their food.

You may have a garden, you may have some cabbages, you may have a ranch, you may have some cows, but, few people, if any in this nation feed themselves off their own land and that would include the cabbage/cow grower.

If you eat fresh or frozen or canned vegetables or fruit, or if you drink store bought beer, or drink store bought wine, you are benefiting from illegal labor. Those are simple facts.

You who rail against illegal immigration, should instead, act on your convictions and come up with actual workable substitutes, on these pages I read rants, most of them think shipping the illegals back to Mexico would solve the problem. Well it would, but it would create other problems that make the illegal problem pale in comparison.

Less than 30 years ago there was hardly any illegal immigration yet we somehow managed to feed our population. Removal is the best option. What we would "lose" on one side with price increases we would "gain" on less social services being lifted by the Illegals themselves.

Besides, Govt has always stepped in to prop up farmers with subsidies and programs. I got paid for years to till under my crops. I got paid when my corn got hailed out.


We owe the Illegals and their dirty employers NOTHING.
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Denver
9,224 posts, read 15,903,815 times
Reputation: 5487
Back on topic, I really hope this is not some illegal alien that randomly killed Mr. Krentz. He was a guy who actually helped others and I am very interested in and angrily awaiting the findings.
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 37,404,661 times
Reputation: 3789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Back on topic, I really hope this is not some illegal alien that randomly killed Mr. Krentz. He was a guy who actually helped others and I am very interested in and angrily awaiting the findings.
I catch your drift and I will leave it at that.

There will be justice.
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:09 PM
Status: "Á la recherche d'un emploi" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,310 posts, read 21,871,280 times
Reputation: 23383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Back on topic, I really hope this is not some illegal alien that randomly killed Mr. Krentz. He was a guy who actually helped others and I am very interested in and angrily awaiting the findings.
I think that's the part that really stood out to me as well - according to accounts, Krentz was known for aiding the border hoppers, so it is in a way "biting the hand that feeds you (or that provides you with water in the desert)".

A bad call on the part of the murderer - it will in effect "poison" the well of human kindness that border ranchers may or may not have had until now.
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 4,837,035 times
Reputation: 816
...
Quote:
Less than 30 years ago there was hardly any illegal immigration yet we somehow managed to feed our population.

Not true at all, illegals have been the primary workers in the vegetable/fruit industry since 1964.

Besides, Govt has always stepped in to prop up farmers with subsidies and programs. I got paid for years to till under my crops. I got paid when my corn got hailed out.

There are not now nor have there ever been government subsidies in the fresh produce industry.
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:17 PM
 
Location: AL
2,477 posts, read 2,270,564 times
Reputation: 1007
[quote=Clarks;13535263]The rancher was, according to the news reports, not killed by an illegal immigrant, which is what this forum is about. He was apparently killed by a criminal, the ethnicity of which is un important, thousands of people are killed by criminals in this country each year.

and Yes, your Saint Patrick's day cabbage had an 80% chance of having been picked by an illegal.
You see, in theory there is no difference between theory and practice, in practice there is.

While the illegal immigration opponents have every right to their opinion, the fact remains that they are dependent on those illegals currently in the nation for their food.

You may have a garden, you may have some cabbages, you may have a ranch, you may have some cows, but, few people, if any in this nation feed themselves off their own land and that would include the cabbage/cow grower.

If you eat fresh or frozen or canned vegetables or fruit, or if you drink store bought beer, or drink store bought wine, you are benefitting from illegal labor. Those are simple facts:



Were the heck did you read that B.S.?
How do you know he was killed by a "criminal" and not and illegal......Oh and by the way..........All illegals are criminals!!!!!!!
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:21 PM
 
1,164 posts, read 1,584,561 times
Reputation: 1160
Perhaps it was agents provocateurs sent by the DNC and Emanuel Rahm (Rahm Emanuel) in an attempt to make it look like the "tea party" is behind the flood of illegal immigrants flowing into the U.S. every day....but somehow I don't think the American people are going to believe that somehow they are responsible for the governments totally spineless lack of resolve in dealing with illegal immigration.

My family south of Tuscon had to give up and sell all their property. They simply cold not deal with the daily and nightly train of illegals (armed illegals) flooding over the border unfettered.....The state, the feds did NOTHING.....and we all continue to suffer. Crowded schools that trample American history and values daily in order to accommodate the history of illegal immigrants....Crowded parks, unemployed men (who's backgrounds are TOTALLY UNKNOWN) standing around in droves, spurious "elections" where illegals end up voting...illegals demanding "rights" and "benefits" that they most certainly are NOT entitled to....crime, gangs, graffiti, tagging...and more and more murdered Americans, placed at the BOTTOM of the U.S. governments priority list....putting every illegal immigrant (and their imaginary "rights") first...

Simply put, we must elect people who are going to end and reverse this illegal immigration nightmare...


....Indeed....in order to prevent the situation on the border spiraling completely out of control the government had best act quickly and decisively to end illegal immigration, without resorting to any form of "amnesty"....

Last edited by Happy Cells; 03-31-2010 at 12:33 PM..
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:31 PM
Status: "Á la recherche d'un emploi" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,310 posts, read 21,871,280 times
Reputation: 23383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
Less than 30 years ago there was hardly any illegal immigration yet we somehow managed to feed our population.

Not true at all, illegals have been the primary workers in the vegetable/fruit industry since 1964.

Besides, Govt has always stepped in to prop up farmers with subsidies and programs. I got paid for years to till under my crops. I got paid when my corn got hailed out.

There are not now nor have there ever been government subsidies in the fresh produce industry.
Your first point: The vegetable/fruit industry does not represent the bulk of this nation, Clarks. I can see that in your world, it is the alpha and the omega, but the fact is, less than 5% of the illegals here in the US are picking cabbages and strawberries. Does the vegetable/fruit industry need 12-20 million illegals? Hardly. And illegals have never been the primary workers in the veg/fruit industry, if if fact only 27% of all ag jobs are performed by illegals these times - not 1964.

Your second point: too bad, how sad. If you want to rely on government subsidies, switch your crops accordingly or start greasing the wheels of your representatives to get on board with subsidizing your line of produce.

And now my point: what does either of your points have to do with the murder of a rancher in AZ?
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Old 03-31-2010, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 19,424,408 times
Reputation: 6523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Seems like such an easy thing to say huh? But I think prices would go up dramatically, unless the employer continues to bypass law.

Not only would wages go up, but the employer would now be responsible for workers comp, taxes...healthcare etc...

Let's say some is making $8.00 an hour illegally would be making $12.00 an hour legally, but the employer is actually paying a "Total Cost" of $16.00 after paying all of the employee related expenses. Wouldn't that in effect double the prices at the bottom line? At least for the labor portion.
You of course are assuming that the savings have been passed on to the consummer. I myself don't believe this to be true.
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