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Old 03-31-2010, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 4,848,257 times
Reputation: 816

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First let me bang my head on the wall, there, I feel better;

Quote:
Your first point: The vegetable/fruit industry does not represent the bulk of this nation, Clarks.


If all you want to eat is carbos, go for it, but most Americans eat a somewhat balanced diet. and they like their beer and or wine

. Does the vegetable/fruit industry need 12-20 million illegals? Hardly.

If you read my posts here from my first, you will be elucidated. My references are targeted.

And illegals have never been the primary workers in the veg/fruit industry, if if fact only 27% of all ag jobs are performed by illegals these times - not 1964.

You are wrong. You are wrong because you have not researched the industry, you don't have to be wrong, it is a free country. You could research the industry, then you could address it accurately.

Your second point: too bad, how sad. If you want to rely on government subsidies, switch your crops accordingly or start greasing the wheels of your representatives to get on board with subsidizing your line of produce.

Your "too bad, how sad" statement is bizarre, your; "If you want to rely on government subsidies, etc." is odd too, did you somehow think I desired government subsidies? If so, reread my posts.

And now my point: what does either of your points have to do with the murder of a rancher in AZ? Again, start with my first post on this thread, review them, all shall be made clear.
Quote:
Were the heck did you read that B.S.?
How do you know he was killed by a "criminal" and not and illegal......Oh and by the way..........All illegals are criminals!!!!!!
First sentence response, it is not hard to discover that "B.S." Newspapers are handy things.
Second sentence, if you are going to quibble, quibble with what I said, not with what you wish I said.
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:11 PM
 
12,870 posts, read 13,144,774 times
Reputation: 4453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
First let me bang my head on the wall, there, I feel better;





First sentence response, it is not hard to discover that "B.S." Newspapers are handy things.
Second sentence, if you are going to quibble, quibble with what I said, not with what you wish I said.
the bottom line is that there ARE americans willing to do the work that the illegal immigrants are currently doing. we have an oversupply of labor situation in this country, which is getting worse, not better. in 2009, USA Today published this:
A report from the Colorado Department of Labor reveals that only 39 U.S. workers applied for 171 farm opening last summer, but this spring, 1,799 U.S. workers applied for 726 openings in the state.

the job situation has continued to deteriorate since that time. multiply those statistics around the country, and you can see we have plenty of workers to do ALL american labor jobs. it is not our duty to provide employment for mexico's dispossessed workers, especially in light of the fact that we have dispossessed workers right here in the united states.

there are people on up to their 3rd extension of unemployment and that is a huge drain on the american economy. it needs to end now.
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 37,476,540 times
Reputation: 3800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
First let me bang my head on the wall, there, I feel better;





First sentence response, it is not hard to discover that "B.S." Newspapers are handy things.
Second sentence, if you are going to quibble, quibble with what I said, not with what you wish I said.
Do us all a favor please: quit defending illegal aliens over the murder of an American by (probable) illegals..........most likely drug cartel members. Otherwise; you are skirting on the edge of treason if the latter two groups are of greater importance to you than an American------in his own nation.
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:12 PM
 
Location: San Diego
35,233 posts, read 32,187,063 times
Reputation: 19764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
...
You are all over the road with this. You first talk about beer, fruit, vegetables , the whole industry, now you have narrowed the scope.

I too have been in the "industry" called farming too for the last 30+ and there were some, but hardly any Illegals in the farming community. Maybe fruit pickers but when you look at the industry as a whole (wheat farmers, corn farmers, etc. ) it is a pittance. The only Illegal Aliens we ever saw were used by small farms to hoe beans.

So no, we don't rely on them as much as you'd like us to think. Innovation has produced machinery to eliminate the need for Illegals if for nothing else, quality control. (read Hep and other related niceties). Sure there are some specialty farms(orchards, strawberries, etc) that use solely Illegal labor but not the industry, not even close.

I've got a fleet of combines, tractors and trucks. So do my neighbors. Last I checked not one Illegal Alien in the field.

Last edited by 1AngryTaxPayer; 03-31-2010 at 02:22 PM..
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:16 PM
 
12,870 posts, read 13,144,774 times
Reputation: 4453
i think the murder of the rancher has brought up another fear that americans have -which is the out of control mexican violence erupting on our side of the border, and we can see it starting now:FOXNews.com - Texas Town on High Alert as Mexican Town Across Border Braces for Cartel Gun Battle

Residents of a small Mexican border town under siege by at least one of the country’s most notorious drug cartels are fleeing into a tiny Texas community, which is on high alert and preparing for a surge of illegal immigrants should a street battle break out with another cartel – or if gunmen begin carrying out a threat to start killing the town’s children.

how many americans have to get killed before we acknowledge that there is a problem?
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:23 PM
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,397 posts, read 21,956,258 times
Reputation: 23685
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
Your first point: The vegetable/fruit industry does not represent the bulk of this nation, Clarks.


If all you want to eat is carbos, go for it, but most Americans eat a somewhat balanced diet. and they like their beer and or wine
. Does the vegetable/fruit industry need 12-20 million illegals? Hardly.

If you read my posts here from my first, you will be elucidated. My references are targeted.

And illegals have never been the primary workers in the veg/fruit industry, if if fact only 27% of all ag jobs are performed by illegals these times - not 1964.

You are wrong. You are wrong because you have not researched the industry, you don't have to be wrong, it is a free country. You could research the industry, then you could address it accurately.
Your second point: too bad, how sad. If you want to rely on government subsidies, switch your crops accordingly or start greasing the wheels of your representatives to get on board with subsidizing your line of produce.

Your "too bad, how sad" statement is bizarre, your; "If you want to rely on government subsidies, etc." is odd too, did you somehow think I desired government subsidies? If so, reread my posts.
And now my point: what does either of your points have to do with the murder of a rancher in AZ?

Again, start with my first post on this thread, review them, all shall be made clear.
#1 - your response to my fact that your industry doesn't represent the bulk of this nation is to talk about my personal eating habits. Do you not know how to debate? Actually address the point made? It doesn't even qualify for sophomoric - it just plain missed the mark entirely. Incidentally, if most Americans truly did eat a "somewhat balanced diet" then there wouldn't be an obesity epidemic.

#2 - I have read your posts here, Clarks. And I find most of them to be very partial to the industry you yourself proclaim to represent. Still doesn't address my point - your industry doesn't need 12-20 million illegal serfs.

#3 - Actually, you are wrong, and I am right. I actually posted a thread with data regarding this; you are welcome to read it. Here, I'll save you the trouble of having to figure out how the search feature works:

Pew Hispanic Center Study - % of "unauthorized migrants" in the workforce

And that %-age is actually only 24, not 27. Well well well. Why don't you read up, and "address it accurately" yourself.

#4 - you were the one who was crying about not getting government subsidies in your line of ag. The fact that you find my response "bizarre" and "odd" seem like smoke screens for your backpedaling.

#5 - I'm not going to review your posts, Clarks. If you have a point, make it. Otherwise, I have already invested more time than worthy responding to lame duck posts by someone who has made their subjectivity and bias regarding illegal immigration crystal clear.

And now - back to the subject of this thread. You remember? The murdered AZ rancher?
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:31 PM
 
Location: San Diego
35,233 posts, read 32,187,063 times
Reputation: 19764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
First let me bang my head on the wall, there, I feel better;





First sentence response, it is not hard to discover that "B.S." Newspapers are handy things.
Second sentence, if you are going to quibble, quibble with what I said, not with what you wish I said.

You ARE getting a subsidy if you are using Illegal Labor. We tax payers are picking up expenses YOU are supposed to be paying. If you can't make money without using illegal labor your business needs to fail. The market will set the price and competition will modify that price.
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Old 03-31-2010, 03:04 PM
 
Location: San Diego
35,233 posts, read 32,187,063 times
Reputation: 19764
Rancher and dog reportedly shot by illegal immigrant: Robert Krentz, 58, and dog - Rynski's Day of the Dead (http://tucsoncitizen.com/dead/2010/03/31/rancher-and-dog-reportedly-shot-by-illegal-immigrant-robert-krentz-58-and-dog/ - broken link)
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Old 03-31-2010, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 4,848,257 times
Reputation: 816
My statement;
Quote:
There are not now nor have there ever been government subsidies in the fresh produce industry
Your statement;
Quote:
you were the one who was crying about not getting government subsidies in your line of ag. The fact that you find my response "bizarre" and "odd" seem like smoke screens for your backpedaling.
How is my statement crying "about not getting government subsidies"?

Another statement divorced from reality;
Quote:
I have read your posts here, Clarks. And I find most of them to be very partial to the industry you yourself proclaim to represent. Still doesn't address my point - your industry doesn't need 12-20 million illegal serfs.
I have no interest in, or partiality toward illegal immigrants, if everyone left tomorrow it would not bother me a bit, except, people like to eat, until the problem of who will harvest and tend the crops America needs illegals.

Quote:
You ARE getting a subsidy if you are using Illegal Labor. We tax payers are picking up expenses YOU are supposed to be paying. If you can't make money without using illegal labor your business needs to fail. The market will set the price and competition will modify that price.
A. I do not use, and have never stated I use or used illegal labor
B. I don't know what expenses you think you are paying, worker's in the fields have income tax withholding, workman's comp, SS witholding just like anyone else working in the fields.
C. The market has set the price, you pay it.
D. Another poster called the workers serfs, so, are the US citizens working in the fields also "serfs"
E. Workers in the fields make at a minimum, minum wage, the wages go up from there, in piece work a worker can make over $20.00 an hour.
F. Field worker wages can be on parity with Paramedics, and Federal Wildfire fighters, are they also serfs?
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Old 03-31-2010, 03:15 PM
 
Location: San Diego
35,233 posts, read 32,187,063 times
Reputation: 19764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
My statement;
Your statement;
How is my statement crying "about not getting government subsidies"?

Another statement divorced from reality;
I have no interest in, or partiality toward illegal immigrants, if everyone left tomorrow it would not bother me a bit, except, people like to eat, until the problem of who will harvest and tend the crops America needs illegals.



A. I do not use, and have never stated I use or used illegal labor
B. I don't know what expenses you think you are paying, worker's in the fields have income tax withholding, workman's comp, SS witholding just like anyone else working in the fields.
C. The market has set the price, you pay it.
D. Another poster called the workers serfs, so, are the US citizens working in the fields also "serfs"
E. Workers in the fields make at a minimum, minum wage, the wages go up from there, in piece work a worker can make over $20.00 an hour.
F. Field worker wages can be on parity with Paramedics, and Federal Wildfire fighters, are they also serfs?
If they are legal workers then what is your beef? If the worker is using a stolen document to work then you are as guilty as the alien. If your workers are legal workers then big deal. You are spinning in circles. Either your business is legit or it isn't.
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